Lost in the Brambles
Par Member
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2008
- Messages
- 225
You can DO it
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I just can't do it
- Thread starter Cowboy Perfect
- Start date
True, but...
I agree with not taking it too seriously. It's a hobby, not a career. If you happen to be really good and make a few extra $$$ great. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't learn the proper form and techniques. I'd say if you have the personality and patience then discing down is the way to go. But if you don't, go ahead and do it your way. No harm done. But most people won't have the natural talent/ability to get very good without some fundementals. They will never get much better, and may just get frustrated and stop playing.
I agree with not taking it too seriously. It's a hobby, not a career. If you happen to be really good and make a few extra $$$ great. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't learn the proper form and techniques. I'd say if you have the personality and patience then discing down is the way to go. But if you don't, go ahead and do it your way. No harm done. But most people won't have the natural talent/ability to get very good without some fundementals. They will never get much better, and may just get frustrated and stop playing.
Miah,
it's because the advice of, get some drivers and throw hard, can be found anywhere- no need to post on the net to get that answer.
Those posting here have usually gotten to a point where improvements diminish, or they have read/relized te mistakes of others and would prefer a clean start.
I almost quit dg. Though I loved it, I hated looking foolish in comparison to my friends. They had been playing for a couple years but were no good at advice- I lost every single round I played for two years
it's like in teeball;
are most kids gonna be pro baseball players- no, but that doesn't mean the coaches shouldn't teach em how to properly bat and catch...
it's because the advice of, get some drivers and throw hard, can be found anywhere- no need to post on the net to get that answer.
Those posting here have usually gotten to a point where improvements diminish, or they have read/relized te mistakes of others and would prefer a clean start.
I almost quit dg. Though I loved it, I hated looking foolish in comparison to my friends. They had been playing for a couple years but were no good at advice- I lost every single round I played for two years
it's like in teeball;
are most kids gonna be pro baseball players- no, but that doesn't mean the coaches shouldn't teach em how to properly bat and catch...
jtbingster
* Ace Member *
Yea that's true, you shouldn't take it too seriously. It isn't what life is all about.
HOWEVER.
It is an amazing sport and people should be able to learn about anything about the sport they want to on here. If that sentence made sense.
Btw, if it isn't a sport...
why is there a PDGA? Why are there hundreds of tournaments every year in multiple countries? Where is there a USDGC? It is a sport. Most definately.
Technohic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 8,517
The thing is, I know that a fast disc is not going to give more distance when under speed. When I broke the 300' barrier recently with a Cheetah and Leopard, I gave a Monarch and a Sidewinder a try just to see. I got 10-15' and it took a lot more effort and on only one line; slight hyzer angle, flattened out then faded, while the Cheetah or Leopard I could hyzer flip to straight and it would cruise there, or I could let it turn over, or put a little more hyzer on it and it still would cruise straight for longer before fading.
The thing is, the Monarch and Sidewinder would get there faster but wouldnt stay at or above their cruising speed so would fade out while the Cheetah and Leopard would hit a cruising speed and maintain at or above that speed to carry longer.
Now, I have found a River, a single notch faster to be more optimal for me as Im still able to hit the cruising speed, but thats still slower than a Sidewinder, Valk or Wraith by a long shot, and when we are talking a 150' - 175' throwerm they are probably going to have more optimal results with a Comet or glidey putter even. Then, by throwing within their means, are probably going to get their best distance without forsaking form and to me, thats a lot more fun than wildly throwing a faster disc around and being in the woods, or the water, or navigating through burs and thorns.
The thing is, the Monarch and Sidewinder would get there faster but wouldnt stay at or above their cruising speed so would fade out while the Cheetah and Leopard would hit a cruising speed and maintain at or above that speed to carry longer.
Now, I have found a River, a single notch faster to be more optimal for me as Im still able to hit the cruising speed, but thats still slower than a Sidewinder, Valk or Wraith by a long shot, and when we are talking a 150' - 175' throwerm they are probably going to have more optimal results with a Comet or glidey putter even. Then, by throwing within their means, are probably going to get their best distance without forsaking form and to me, thats a lot more fun than wildly throwing a faster disc around and being in the woods, or the water, or navigating through burs and thorns.
djjeremiahj
Double Eagle Member
Miah,
it's because the advice of, get some drivers and throw hard, can be found anywhere- no need to post on the net to get that answer.
Those posting here have usually gotten to a point where improvements diminish, or they have read/relized te mistakes of others and would prefer a clean start.
I almost quit dg. Though I loved it, I hated looking foolish in comparison to my friends. They had been playing for a couple years but were no good at advice- I lost every single round I played for two years
it's like in teeball;
are most kids gonna be pro baseball players- no, but that doesn't mean the coaches shouldn't teach em how to properly bat and catch...
re: Teeball...
when i was a coach, outside the fundamentals, i wanted to teach the kids how to have a good time.
drilling them to ad nauseum until they hated the game only discourages them.
if the kids enjoyed themselves enough and had a pleasurable experience, they would happily return and try to get better.
dg is the same... on most weekends, i can be found on my local course playing "pick up games" with noobs and rookes and being a "DG ambassador".... i give them pointers tips and tricks to help them get better drive and (more importantly) have a satisfying experience. As an ambassador, i know that the only way to get most to stick with the sport is to get them over the first few hurdles. Once that's done, they can make the choice if they want to take it to the next level.
in the beginning, everyone sucks and everyone wants to know how to drive 300'.
1) Nose Down
1a) Slightly cock the wrist backward from the "handshake" and force snap. (not a 90 degree "right angle wrap around of the disc, but maybe 20 degrees???)
1b) Hold the dang disc tight... If it comes out fluttering like a lame duck, you need to work on your "man hands".
2) "Pull the Lawnmover Chord" / "Smack the midget" - Throw flat and hard.
(Did i mention throw hard, most noobs throw soft, i usually tell them to try to throw their hardest; just as an exercise to get them to understand how hard they have to throw. The disc usually goes off in a random direction, but FAAAR in the process, and the light goes on in their head...)
3) Proper Weight (Not too heavy, not too light... be the baby bear and be "just right"); I cant tell you how many guys i've seen throw a 175 <XXXX> and when i give them one of my discs @ 170 it gives instant results (again the lightbulb goes on... for some reason all the advanced players always recommend a 175 <whatever> that sets most players back 3-4 months as they learn they need a lighter disc.
4) Proper Disc (Faster Discs go farther. albeit less accurately, but in the beginning until you can drive 300' with ANY disc, the game is still the same.); i cant tell you how many times i've seen guys throw advanced or improper discs (Monster, Cheetah, Leopard <- "It says distance driver on the disc") and how many times i've let them borrow one of my discs (usually, Wraith, beast or super beat in destroyer) and instant results.
5) Basic form - XStep, Sidearm Throw, Basic Putting/Approach Form
*6) Pay attention to angle of release. Some guys if they just tip the edge (side of disc) up, or down [hyzer or anhyzer] and "force" a flat throw, it fixes everything. I've met a lot of guys who throw correctly, but their discs are too new, or too heavy, and as soon as i say "tip the outside edge up and it will force the disc flat"... VIOLA!
5 1/2 simple steps to 300'..... it's not magic.
fixing the simplest things allow almost anyone get to 300'.
from this point, the player can consciously decide if their life, hobby, girlfriend
p), and goals will allow them to progress farther.(* i can say, that by "cheating" i've helped a lot of guys get "hooked")
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XCyclone
Double Eagle Member
Dude, did you not read my post? Discing down is the only way this guy is going to throw far. He will not throw a faster disc farther that a slower disc. He will get more distance with a slower disc. It's got nothing to do with teaching someone, being a sensi or whatever- it's about design and physics. For this guy, like everyone beginning this sport, A SLOWER DISC WILL GO FARTHER THAN A FASTER DISC!!!!
Slower discs are made for beginners to throw far.
XCyclone is absolutely right. The only way to get decent distance out of any given disc is to have the power to turn it over. "Turn it over" means to throw from a 10 degree hyzer release, and the disc will turn right to flat and then keep turning past flat so that it is tracking right for a while before finally fading out. This is because turning it over in the air increases the time the disc will glide and also forces the nose down as it flies.
If you're not breaking 200', then you don't really have the power to turn over any drivers (if you must try, pick up a light 150g Avenger SS or Sidewinder, or similar, but don't throw them on the course until you can turn them over with control). And this is a question of speed AND stability. Stay away from the River, these are not for new players either. If the disc is slow, but still over-stable, then the new player will not have the power to turn it over.
Pick up something that will beat in to slightly understable, and work it on those turn over lines. Get the nose down, increase the spin on the disc, and experiment with throwing higher and lower lines with different hyzer angles.
DX Roc is a great choice for a stable mid that will break in straight. Also try out discs that are understable to begin, like the Comet. Champion Panther is another great disc, or the Z Glide. All of these can be turned over with little power, and are the proper stepping stones to greater distance and accuracy.
I too was once stuck below 200', but now I've reach 400' on my longest throws. It was a matter of time, patience, and really listening to sound advice on forums like DGR (no offense, but there is a lot of good and bad advice here on DGCR, and hard to sift through).
Technohic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 8,517
Yes, to be clear, I wasnt recomending a River; its just whats working for me and is a great disc when your distance gets just over 300'.
150-175' thrower, I recomend a Comet, or glidey putter like a Magic or an Ion, but if you must use a "driver" the Panther and Impact in lighter weights would probably be ok.
150-175' thrower, I recomend a Comet, or glidey putter like a Magic or an Ion, but if you must use a "driver" the Panther and Impact in lighter weights would probably be ok.
jtencer
Eagle Member
If you're having trouble and are driving between 100-150, I have some advice. I never got stuck there myself, but that's only like 35 yards and you should be able to throw any disc that far without a problem. I'm pretty sure you could put a mini out further than that. The problem is certainly not the disc.
Here is what I suggest:
1. Find an ultrastar or any other catch disc.
2. Find a friend.
3. Go outside and start playing catch.
You want to start out close enough together that you can throw it smooth and flat and hit your friend in the chest. You don't want the disc to flutter at all. As you get comfortable at a distance, slowly back up.
It shouldn't take more than 20-30 minutes before you're standing at least 30 yards apart.
Here is what I suggest:
1. Find an ultrastar or any other catch disc.
2. Find a friend.
3. Go outside and start playing catch.
You want to start out close enough together that you can throw it smooth and flat and hit your friend in the chest. You don't want the disc to flutter at all. As you get comfortable at a distance, slowly back up.
It shouldn't take more than 20-30 minutes before you're standing at least 30 yards apart.
By taking advice like yours, I sucked hard at disc golf regardless of what driver I threw, which was not fun. I spent a lot of time looking for my disc, which was not fun. I got tendinitis so bad from throwing these fast drivers that I had to stop playing for half a year, which was not fun.
I didn't "get" how to throw after 3 months of strong arming drivers with OAT, I "got" lots of bogeys and excruciating pain in my forearm. Furthermore, I've never seen ANY noob/weekender benefit from having the right "tools" like a Valk, Wraith, or SW, what I've seen, w/o fail, are players getting frustrated and being outdriven by putters.
The mere fact that you repeatedly tell beginners to throw discs aimed at professional players is complete and utter nonsense, the garbage you spew is tantamount (that's the correct spelling of that word, btw) to Wimp Lo being taught bad kung fu on purpose.
If you really want these guys to have a good time, you'd advocate them learning how to swim instead of pushing them off the high dive into the deep end.
ColonelDracula
Par Member
Throwing has nothing to do with big power or "snap".
The disc needs spin immediately. Hold the disc like Feldberg does - not at the front, but up high.
See this video: (Feldberg is at 14:35).
Vibram Open - Dave's Drive at 14:35
Throwing a frisbee is not a pull or a yank or a strength test. Throwing a frisbee is a swing and release.
Swing the arm like a pendulum and release it with a high grip (see Dave's hand placement).
Then simply release.
The hard part: trusting that with little power the disc will go significant distance. But the arm, in truth, is generating a lot of power.
The disc needs spin immediately. Hold the disc like Feldberg does - not at the front, but up high.
See this video: (Feldberg is at 14:35).
Vibram Open - Dave's Drive at 14:35
Throwing a frisbee is not a pull or a yank or a strength test. Throwing a frisbee is a swing and release.
Swing the arm like a pendulum and release it with a high grip (see Dave's hand placement).
Then simply release.
The hard part: trusting that with little power the disc will go significant distance. But the arm, in truth, is generating a lot of power.
The dude on the bike
Double Eagle Member
but I'm so used to the Climo grip.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2009
- Messages
- 630
1) Make sure you're throwing the right disc. You should be throwing understable 150 class discs. Think stingray, leopard, Pro TL etc.
2) Beat that disc up.
3) Use an x-step.
4) Reach further back.
5) Learn to hyzer flip.
I'd be surprised if all that doesn't get you past 200.
I wonder if the OP is still reading this thread? Anyway, here is my $.02.
When I first started last summer, I thought the "distance drivers" would give me distance, so I got a dx wraith and threw it for a few months, and I also had a dx shark and aviar. I had never thrown in a field, I just stepped up to the tee and tried to launch the wraith as far as I could and then threw my shark for my approach until I felt I could putt with my aviar. I very seldom had a birdie putt and the course I was playing had holes that range from 110-250'.
After doing that for a few months, I was visiting family and there wasn't a course nearby so I just threw my discs on their land. I was surprised to find that I could throw the shark and aviar much more accurately and even slightly farther than the wraith. That's also about the time that I found this site and started reading the forums. I decided to take the winter and only throw my mids (which at the time I got an element and buzzz) on the course and leave the drivers for the practice field. Even as I got my mids to 230', the drivers were still goin the same distance. The first throw I made that eclipsed 300' was with an element at the practice field, and even then, the drivers weren't going more than 275. Over the next few weeks, I got my mids to 300' consistently, and that is when I started seeing gaps in distance between drivers and mids. Then I got fairway drivers...
My first 400' throw was with a dx teebird...The rest is still developing
So I would say from experience (and a few months of frustration), that understable mids are the best things to be throwing, maybe even just putters.
When I first started last summer, I thought the "distance drivers" would give me distance, so I got a dx wraith and threw it for a few months, and I also had a dx shark and aviar. I had never thrown in a field, I just stepped up to the tee and tried to launch the wraith as far as I could and then threw my shark for my approach until I felt I could putt with my aviar. I very seldom had a birdie putt and the course I was playing had holes that range from 110-250'.
After doing that for a few months, I was visiting family and there wasn't a course nearby so I just threw my discs on their land. I was surprised to find that I could throw the shark and aviar much more accurately and even slightly farther than the wraith. That's also about the time that I found this site and started reading the forums. I decided to take the winter and only throw my mids (which at the time I got an element and buzzz) on the course and leave the drivers for the practice field. Even as I got my mids to 230', the drivers were still goin the same distance. The first throw I made that eclipsed 300' was with an element at the practice field, and even then, the drivers weren't going more than 275. Over the next few weeks, I got my mids to 300' consistently, and that is when I started seeing gaps in distance between drivers and mids. Then I got fairway drivers...
My first 400' throw was with a dx teebird...The rest is still developing
So I would say from experience (and a few months of frustration), that understable mids are the best things to be throwing, maybe even just putters.
ColonelDracula
Par Member
I think any new motion is going to feel new and maybe awkward at first.
jtencer
Eagle Member
At the distance he's throwing, he doesn't need to be changing discs or using a run up or a big back swing. He just doesn't know how to throw a frisbee. He needs to start throwing soft and work his way up.
Cowboy Perfect
Newbie
Thanks for all the tips. I've been trying to work on one thing at a time and I can already see an improvement. I even got the snap sound once yesterday AND it went straight, so yay me!
