[Innova] Inconsistent Innova molds...

[Scared_Discless]

I know what OAT is and I'm good with that, but what's PLH?

Parting Line Height

A pretty good explanation is here:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13889

 

[Jukeshoe]

I've noticed a major difference between newer runs (read: in the last year or so) of Star Wraiths than the old pre-flight number Wraiths.

The newer Wraiths are extremely domey whereas when I first joined the sport, it seemed like the only Wraiths available in star were flat or at the very worst minorly-domey.

They screwed with the Coyote dominess, too, before it went OOP.

Generally speaking, I'm very unhappy with the inconsistencies in various runs. That said, I just find a particular run I like and then stock up a good-sized pile.

 

[whentherainscome]

You could learn why the discs vary their flight in the same molds and become a more discerning consumer.

From most to least obvious: plastic type, weight, dome, flashing, +mold, and most importantly PLH.

Or you could just act all shocked that businessmen tend to be Capitalists. :|

 

[DiscChainBasket18]

For me: Inconsistant: discs/throws! One I can work on. One I cant!
Hit a few trees & I get a whole new level of consistancy LOL

 

[NOSteveLA]

Lets see...
Eagle. They screwed that one up from E-L to E-X
Destroyer- They screwed everyone who tried to replace a beat in one
Firebird- Flattop fiasco
Bosses- stay away from pro plastic
Valkyrie- Better get a 5x or its junk
Groove- no explanation needed

But I wouldnt say Innova is inconsistent....

 

[BirdmanCR]

Monarch. nothing else need be said.

 

[StevenDodge]

Innova discs are probably more consistant than our throws. The groove is the only disc I have had serious consistency issues with (except the Destraulcans). I have seen it on a few other molds, but it was no worse than discraft of lat 64. and Vibram and gateway have been far more inconsitstant.

Look at the Trek and Trak, people do not talk about how they fly because no one knows, they know how theirs fly, but then the guy down the road will have the complete opposite.
We all know how you have to feel gateway before you buy since S could mean SS, SSS, SSSS or vice versa.

Just to be clear, the Trek was a prototype version of the our stable fairway driver, which settled into the name Trak. There should be no doubt about the stable, reliable flight of the Trak.

We did do a special First Run Footprint Trak, which was massively overstable, but only these footprint Traks are crazy overstable. All production run Traks are stable and controllable. I give away discs quite often and rarely play with the same discs in more than a couple rounds. I am very comfortable grabbing a Trak (or any other Vibram disc) from the rack and knowing how it will fly.

 

[tbird888]

Lets see...
Eagle. They screwed that one up from E-L to E-X
Destroyer- They screwed everyone who tried to replace a beat in one
Firebird- Flattop fiasco
Bosses- stay away from r-pro plastic
Valkyrie- Better get a 5x or its junk
Groove- no explanation needed

But I wouldnt say Innova is inconsistent....

TeeBirds - 11X vs 12X, stable to meathook, domey to flat
Gator - multiple molds
Valkyrie - + mold run
Katana - stability all over the place
Starfire - anything but consistent
Roc - rim can range from normal to + without it being a + mold depending on many factors
Classic Aviar - not firm at all anymore. Can be big, small, or no bead
KC Pro Aviars/Rocs - can range in firmness and grip/feel

There's a reason people seek out older Innova discs. They put more effort into their products before they had so many molds to keep track of and had so many orders to fill.

 

[AndyJB]

There's a reason people seek out older Innova discs. They put more effort into their products before they had so many molds to keep track of and had so many orders to fill.

I can agree with that, for sure. It happens with any sort of product that gets cranked out in mass quanities...my Hot Pockets taste slightly different from box to box, but not enough for me to really care.

Some of it may by mental too. I know when I got a new Champion Wraith, I wasn't throwing it the same for awhile. I don't know why.:doh: Nevertheless, I haven't found any consistency issues that were enough to really effect (affect? I suck at English LOL) my game on a deep level. I say just work on being consistent with your form, or try a different band.

But my bag, as I have said before, is primarily Innova (until the Vibram Long Range and MVP Driver come out that is:thmbup for the reason that most people gripe about it: their easy to find, and affordable.

 

[General Scales]

All companies are inconsistent. ALL OF THEM. Having worked with injection molding, having a father that works with injection molding and many friends that worked or work still with injection molding, it will always be inconsistent. There are too many variables to control to make a perfect disc every time. I'll list off molds from the three major companies that vary so much

1.) Innova Katana: I've thrown Katana's that were exactly what their flight ratings stated and I've thrown Katana's that are so ridiculously overstable that they could almost be considered Nuke OS overstable.
2.) Discraft Wasp: Anybody that has thrown a few different Wasps can attest to this. I've seen them meathook like and flying just like a Buzzz with a bead. There's a reason why everyone wants the opaque old school Z ones compared to the Z ones that are coming out now.
3.) Latitude Striker: I have 5 Strikers at home, all of them flew different new. One was Vision flippy, one was XXX overstable (the nipple top first runs) and everywhere in between.

The point? Even though I believe Innova is the most inconsistent of the bunch due to where they mold, how many molds and sheer amount of volume they release, they get dumped on more then they should. Every disc company is going to be inconsistent and the only way to fix this is to have a perfect clean room molding environment. Then again, that would raise prices to astronomical levels and who wants that?

 

[plex]

All companies are inconsistent. ALL OF THEM. Having worked with injection molding...

well your wrong, i have been throwing more and more MVP for this reason.

MVP has very small inconsistencies and it only varies from the different types of plastic.

ALL my Proton Vectors(5), Axis(4), Ion(5) fly exactly the same every time.
ALL my Neutron Ion's(3) Fly the same but they are slightly more glide and stable that the Protons.

I have multiple colors in each plastic and they are all consistent.

I have also purchased these discs over a period of a year and the ones i bought 12 months ago, compared to the ones i bought 2 months ago fly exactly the same - when i throw these discs, i know what they are going to do.

However, Innova has been a nightmare for me... i have a couple old SEX eagles, and the new star eagles DO NOT FLY LIKE THEM AT ALL... it sucks. Also I have 11x Eagles and they are WAY overstable compared to the new Champ eagles.. IM DONE with innova, they dont care about their customers anymore.

 

[prerube]

Just to be clear, the Trek was a prototype version of the our stable fairway driver, which settled into the name Trak. There should be no doubt about the stable, reliable flight of the Trak.

We did do a special First Run Footprint Trak, which was massively overstable, but only these footprint Traks are crazy overstable. All production run Traks are stable and controllable. I give away discs quite often and rarely play with the same discs in more than a couple rounds. I am very comfortable grabbing a Trak (or any other Vibram disc) from the rack and knowing how it will fly.

So you are saying avoid the treks and buy the traks, except foot print traks.

The trek issues were the only example I can think of from Vibram, so you are right that it is not fair to say Vibram is not consistant.

 

[Eefman]

Did any of the MVP fanboys ever stop to think that maybe if MVP had the same market share as Innova, they would have a higher percentage of inconsistencies?

For all you know, they DO have the same % of "inconsistent discs". Think about it. Innova produces 10,000 Champion Birdies and 10% don't meet mold specifications. MVP produces 1,000 Proton Ion's and again, 10% don't meet mold specifications.

Which disc(s) do you have the higher probability of coming across? One out of 1,000 Birdies, or one out of 100 Ions? I just really think all these people saying "Screw Innova I'm done with that THEY DON'T CARE" needs to re-evaluate what Innova has done and still does to grow this sport we all share and love. I seriously doubt any other company (MVP included) would do any better in Innova's situation of being the biggest manufacturer.

Just my $.02

 

[IHearChains]

There is an easy solution. Go out and throw them in the practice field. Once you learn what they do, does it really matter that much what mold name is on the stamp? I love Star Valks, and they seem mostly consistent, to me anyway. But I have one Star Valk that throws like a Beast. Now that I have learned that, I just throw it in a situation that calls for a Beast. It's not that big a deal.

 

[jtreadwell]

All companies are inconsistent. ALL OF THEM. Having worked with injection molding, having a father that works with injection molding and many friends that worked or work still with injection molding, it will always be inconsistent. There are too many variables to control to make a perfect disc every time. I'll list off molds from the three major companies that vary so much

1.) Innova Katana: I've thrown Katana's that were exactly what their flight ratings stated and I've thrown Katana's that are so ridiculously overstable that they could almost be considered Nuke OS overstable.
2.) Discraft Wasp: Anybody that has thrown a few different Wasps can attest to this. I've seen them meathook like and flying just like a Buzzz with a bead. There's a reason why everyone wants the opaque old school Z ones compared to the Z ones that are coming out now.
3.) Latitude Striker: I have 5 Strikers at home, all of them flew different new. One was Vision flippy, one was XXX overstable (the nipple top first runs) and everywhere in between.

The point? Even though I believe Innova is the most inconsistent of the bunch due to where they mold, how many molds and sheer amount of volume they release, they get dumped on more then they should. Every disc company is going to be inconsistent and the only way to fix this is to have a perfect clean room molding environment. Then again, that would raise prices to astronomical levels and who wants that?

Don't waste your time with logic - this thread has happened MANY times before and some folks just don't understand math like this. They're just here to spout off so let's not ruin their fun, eh?

 

[plastic cannon]

But I have one Star Valk that throws like a Beast.

That's how it's suppose to fly. -2, 2. beast -2, 2.

 

[mndiscg]

Innova discs are probably more consistant than our throws. The groove is the only disc I have had serious consistency issues with (except the Destraulcans). I have seen it on a few other molds, but it was no worse than discraft of lat 64. and Vibram and gateway have been far more inconsitstant.

Look at the Trek and Trak, people do not talk about how they fly because no one knows, they know how theirs fly, but then the guy down the road will have the complete opposite.
We all know how you have to feel gateway before you buy since S could mean SS, SSS, SSSS or vice versa.

The bold is true. Generally, disc golfers are huge whiners. The only disc I had trouble with was the Groove.

 

[whentherainscome]

Generally, disc golfers are huge whiners.

And they're way more inconsistent than Innova ever has been!

 

[davistd0]

Throw better --> hit fewer trees/lose fewer discs --> don't have to replace discs so often --> don't have to worry about inconsistencies.

Agreed, all companies produce inconsistent discs. IMO, the inconsistencies are trivial in most molds and can easily be overcome by adjusting how you throw the disc. Instead of complaining that your new wraith isn't the same as the old one, or that your teebird is way flippier than your buddy's, adjust and throw better. Make your game as adaptable as possible.

Besides, can anyone throw exactly the same 100% of the time? Unless you throw exaclty the line you want on every throw ever, and have never missed a putt, nor hit a tree... I would bet your discs are more consistent than you.

If you throw perfectly, always and forever, then I apologize. You have the right to complain about disc mold inconsistencies.

 

[blur]

If you throw perfectly, always and forever, then I apologize. You have the right to complain about disc mold inconsistencies.

well said. I would bet that 98% of inconsistency problems are a result of disc user error