I feel like most people I play with just don't throw 2.4cm rim discs. I see the occasional forehand dominant guy torquing on Bosses, but other than that people mostly stick with =<2.3cm.
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[Innova] Innova KATANA
- Thread starter humchris85
- Start date
I feel like most people I play with just don't throw 2.4cm rim discs. I see the occasional forehand dominant guy torquing on Bosses, but other than that people mostly stick with =<2.3cm.
@CD-
Eagle Member
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- Dec 12, 2020
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- 13+ speeds are harder to get up to speed consistently. Lowering the disc mass to counter this can make the disc more susceptible to wind
- 11-12 speeds are more forgiving and can be powered down easier. Wraith/Shryke/Tern beat out the Katana/Corvette if missing the line or nose angle.
- Sacrificing consistency for slightly more total distance that the player probably could do without.
- Not many holes have the airspace and distance to really air out a Katana/Corvette. If it only gets used for 1 shot a round it may not be worth bagging.
oldmandiscer
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The Corvette wing is actually much closer to a Destroyer. The 14 speed is marketing hype.
The Boss has a wider wing and even fractionally shaper.
I measured them before but I believe the Boss was around 2.5. Corvette was around 2.35. I think Destroyer was marginally smaller like 2.3. I think the Katana was pushing about 2.4.
Wing width isn't everything of course either. Overall wing depth matters too some. A very shallow disc like a Flick can really cut through the air fast.
The Corvette isn't that slim on that side either though. Then you have individual discs like dome to consider. More dome more forgiving.
You are right though that in general, the faster discs are less forgiving and more apt to turn quicker and fade quicker. So what is ideal for distance plus accuracy/forgivness? I think that you are right again. The Wraith to Destroyer territory is a good combination.
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
I think people are just turned off by the fact that the Katana has so much variance from disc to disc. You can get anything from super flippy to VERY overstable. A flat, overstable Katana is no fun at all to throw. It won't glide, turn, or do much of anything.
I've even run across a few domey champion Katanas that flew the same way. Very overstable with no glide.
If I'm throwing a Katana, I want something like 14, 5, -2, 2. I want the disc to turn, but not too much. I also want adequate glide and an average late fade.
Most of the best Katanas I've tried are star >170. Once you dip below 170g you really get the advertised glide and turn.
The Katana is still one of the premier distance molds on the market. It would rank in my top 5 longest molds. The disc absolutely smashes, and will hang with anything else out there for sheer distance.
The real trick is finding that perfect Katana. You might have to try 5 or 6 to really find a good one.
Lastly, the Katana isn't a very easy disc to throw. Lots of risk involved. You can mash it 500', but who knows where the disc will end up? The Katana isn't super controllable, and can be finicky, especially if wind is involved. Any wide/shallow rimmed driver is going to be inconsistent, and the Katana is the poster child for this.
Massively long if you're willing to put in the work to learn the disc and deal with inaccuracy/inconsistency.
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Counterpoint, I recently went full OCD and spent an entire sunday afternoon measuring 106 discs I own in 3 different places each. This included 6 Bosses and 2 Corvettes which gave the following results.
As you can see there is not a significant difference between them based on my measurements with the discs I have. I'd posit that they're both just regular 13 speeds based off rim width.
oldmandiscer
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Counterpoint, I recently went full OCD and spent an entire sunday afternoon measuring 106 discs I own in 3 different places each. This included 6 Bosses and 2 Corvettes which gave the following results.
As you can see there is not a significant difference between them based on my measurements with the discs I have. I'd posit that they're both just regular 13 speeds based off rim width.
Maybe I confused the Nuke and Boss in my memory. Was the Nuke 2.5?
My battery died on my calipers so I couldn't check now.
What did you get for the Destroyer. Isn't it about 2.3? Holding a Star Destroyer, Shryke and Vette they all seem pretty close. yet Innova has them 3 different speed ratings, I guess they got to fill in slots on the chart.
twistedraven
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I have a Mitutoyo micrometer. The Destroyer and Shryke have the exact same rim width. The Ballista Pro is slightly larger than the Destroyer/Shryke, and the Corvette slightly larger than the Ballista Pro. Nuke is max width allowed.
Destroyer averaged 23.02mm across 5 discs, all star. I've read that the Nuke is 25mm but have not confirmed it myself.
In general Innova drivers seem to fall into 7 speed categories:
- 7 speed, 16.3mm - Gazelle/Leopard(3)
- 8 speed, 17.5mm(+1.2mm) - TL(3)/Teebird(3)
- 9 speed, 19.1mm(+1.6mm) - Thunderbird/Firebird/Valkyrie
- 10 speed, 20.4mm(+1.3mm) - Beast
- 11 speed, 21.7mm(+1.3mm) - Wraith
- 12 speed, 23.0mm(+1.3mm) - Destroyer/PD2/XCal
- 13 speed, 24.0mm(+1.0mm) - Boss/Corvette
There also seems to be a trend that the harder/more durable/more overstable the plastic, the thicker the rim. Which I'm sure tons of people could've told you. For example the biggest within-mold difference I found was DX Teebird3s measuring 17.33mm and MF Teebird3s measuring 17.68mm.
Keep in mind that the biggest variation between two measurements of the same exact disc is 0.35mm or about 2%, which might give an indication of measurement error.
On topic: I feel like controllability and reliability in manufacturing may go down the faster the disc gets and people arbitrarily picked 12 speed as the point where they go "discs faster than this are too uncontrollable/unreliable"(probably because Destroyers are good). I imagine if maximum allowed rim width was 28mm and we had 16-17 speed discs that a lot more people would be throwing Katanas and other 24mm discs.
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
I'd like to see a manufacturer create something with at least a 30mm rim. I realize it wouldn't be PDGA legal, but I just want to see if something with a rim that wide would even fly decently.
Problem is, they'd have to use a lighter form of plastic because that much substance in the rim would cause the disc to be really heavy.
Here's what is so great about Gstar katana, the turn and glide without flipping to roller. I tried kings and they are great for a short time but I struggle with them flipping so that can't really use them anymore, blizz bosses were very long but haven't found a good one in ages and have quit trying..either glideless or os have one decent one but it really doesn't do much..haven't found a longer disc than 169 gstar kat
This isn't about a katana per se but it's about the hunt for the similar type of disk.. I bought 2 disks today 11 was A158 blizzard boss the other was A163 champion daedalus. The disks and plastic were almost identical the 163 is basically a blizzard disk. The boss had a fairly flat wing and a nice little dome. I threw them both And they were really nice. The datalist is possibly too understable for whatever reason and turned into a roller it was breezy but i downwind I really had some nice throws with it.. The blizzard boss was surprisingly great the 1st good one I've thrown in a very long time. It had nice glide and did not have the ridiculous the ridiculous overstability that some had. This disk actually likedto ride out to the right But did so in a controlled fashion without a hard fade or too much flip. I also used it forehand and found it to be just great I've been trying to throw less stable disks forehand.this flew great very straight and glide with a small finish. I've also been throwing a pro boss at 162 that I find I really like I put it out on a small flex line and it holds it without hard fade.. And has become increasingly glidey as its breaking in. That G star cat still seems like my longest but definitely can flip into wind, wind from side it is a monster though all to the right. So what's weird is I'm moving back into liking bosses bosses because they don't quite go out so far the right but it's really Depends on how you're throwing. The boss seem to like to be thrown slightly on an anny if the wind is coming underneath them they just go a long way. But you have to be throwing them hard and nose down so they don't fade back So if someone just goes and buys a boss but really should be throwing a Valkyrie they won't be happy with it.
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
Sounds like you need a G* Corvette. Thank me later.
I try to avoid blizzard discs. They can bomb, but are way more trouble than they're worth.
Daedalus is a nice flier, but they can be too flippy at times.
PMantle
* Ace Member *
I have not tried a Katana in a while after having a beat Star early one that bombed, then a flat Pro that did not glide. On a whim, I bought a G* 168. I just threw it side by side with my control Corvette which is long for me. I just threw 390 into a slight headwind with the Katana. I consider myself a 350-370ish thrower. Pretty sure tat was my longest flat land non-wind aided throw ever, and I am 55. My Corvette, even with good turn, was a good 20 feet shorter. Another interesting aspect of the flight was, it did not eat up a bunch of field to get that distance. While it did turn some, it was remarkable straight. Going straight into the bag.
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
I've had mixed results with G* Katanas. The ones with dome are great. However, many G* Katanas are flat. Those ones don't glide well, and tend to be pretty beefy.
The Katana tends to be a flatter mold in general, but all the best ones I've ever seen/thrown have had at least some dome.
I think the Katana is a hair faster than the Corvette, despite what the flight numbers say. It's a sharper disc with a shallower, wider rim.
Still liking the gitarra katana. I finally figured out something which is probably obvious but I believe the problem people have with katana's not turning is that their throws or not sufficiently nosr down that seems to put the brakes on if you're ever a little off For some reason my VIP king ink which used to be terribly flippy is now a money long right Turner for me so I think that is purely an oat issue with that disk, That is my go to downwind I want I'm also mixing in a champ daddylus 171 which seems very well behaved with a small long right turn The distances are almost the same I will say that katana has been a winner, today I bought a new disk that I've never owned which was an opto ballista and 170 and it's like a slightly more stable king I would say say but once thrown it just seems to have an extra glide consistently longer than the others for whatever reason.. Now it's probably ridiculous that I carry 6 or 7 speed 13 understable drivers but for some reason I like them and they all seem to work
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
What's always bothered me most about Katanas is the severe inconsistency from disc to disc. Some Katanas are flat, beefy, and glideless. You can just mash on them and they don't go anywhere. All the best Katanas I've seen have some dome, and fly pretty true to the given flight numbers (13, 5, -2, 3). A good Katana will turn fairly easily, but not be super flippy. It'll hold that turn for a while before fading.
BTW, I'd take a good Katana over a Ballista for sheer distance. IDK why, but the Katana simply goes further for me, and takes power better without getting too flippy.
spinachd
Eagle Member
I'm sure I've commented in this katana forum several times before, but I found a Pro Katana in a used bin the other day and it's just a thing of beauty. I knew it would be. It absolutely sizzles.
Looking back, all my favorite distance drivers have been katanas. A few have been champ, one has been star, but most have been pro.
The best katanas have moderate dome and just look well-balanced. There are wider rims but there is no faster flying disc.
Looking back, all my favorite distance drivers have been katanas. A few have been champ, one has been star, but most have been pro.
The best katanas have moderate dome and just look well-balanced. There are wider rims but there is no faster flying disc.
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