Is THIS what we want?

[oldmandiscer]

Fixed:

There's a lot in between those two that should be what is aimed for.

Your only problem, players are still going to get better and more are coming. If you think this is bad, wait another ten years because it has to get worse to keep up with player skill and the number of them.

 

[Steve West]

I guess it depends on if you want to see disc golf courses mature into:

A: the look and feel of Augusta National, or
B: goofy golf, with Dino the dinosaur and miniature windmills and Taj Mahals.

 

[Jay Dub]

Your only problem, players are still going to get better and more are coming. If you think this is bad, wait another ten years because it has to get worse to keep up with player skill and the number of them.

Stop pretending you're* the only one who understands what is going on. *You're wrong on here more than *you're right.

 

[foxdawg10]

You mean you haven't heard of Double G Beef Jerky????

I have not. Do I really want to?? It sounds like that could mean a few different things and not many of them sound safe for work, lol.

 

[foxdawg10]

You mean you haven't heard of Double G Beef Jerky????

Well I'll be, this really is a thing.

My #1 passion is disc golf, but a close second is my love for high quality jerky. I have been making beef jerky for my friends and family since I was 16, and I am now taking my craft to the next level.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Stop pretending you're* the only one who understands what is going on. *You're wrong on here more than *you're right.

Your forgetting that the skill of players is not staying the same nor decreasing. Which is why these gimmicks are increasing at a rapid rate. You can't keep the game where it is (basket or gimmicks), that's not an option.

 

[Emoney]

I think a good start for challenging pros AND getting more entertaining dg content would be to change pin positions each day.

This is perfect for old ball golf courses that have plenty of room to do this. Belton could easily have 3 pin positions on each hole. I think it would go a long way with shuffling the leaderboard from day to day.

Would love to see a player throw backhand one day and then have to throw forehand the next day on the same hole. Something like that.

It would limit the need to have several courses for a tournament as well.

Ideally, DGPT would have a travel trailer with 18 portable thinner baskets they would take to each destination. They would have 3 pin placements pre-determined and in the caddy book with yardages and whatnot.
After each round they could easily move to the next position.

Im not talking moving the basket 100-200ft. Just like 60ft in either direction. Longer/shorter/left/right.
That could force an entirely different shot and different disc on each hole, each day.

It should be standard.

***thinner baskets may take a little longer for ppl to warm up to but different pin positions each day shouldnt be met with much resistance.

I want disc golf to have a "anything can happen" vibe each round.

There is no questioning that the players skill has far surpassed the courses challenges. That is proven by all the modifications done to the courses on the pro tour.

Putting is too easy for pros. So we are currently trying O.B. right next to the pin or gimmicks.
2/3 basket size would look so much cleaner and have the same impact.
Along with the pin placement changes each day....we have GOLD jerry....GOLD!

 

[Jay Dub]

Your forgetting that the skill of players is not staying the same nor decreasing. Which is why these gimmicks are increasing at a rapid rate. You can't keep the game where it is (basket or gimmicks), that's not an option.

Completely ignored what I said.

 

[oldmandiscer]

I guess it depends on if you want to see disc golf courses mature into:

A: the look and feel of Augusta National, or
B: goofy golf, with Dino the dinosaur and miniature windmills and Taj Mahals.

I would shoot for Augusta National but when you come up short which you likely will it will still be professional looking and appealing to the masses.

 

[DiscFifty]

Your only problem, players are still going to get better and more are coming. If you think this is bad, wait another ten years because it has to get worse to keep up with player skill and the number of them.

Ten years? We just had what... a 15 year old on a lead card. The sport does need some tweaks on the pro side, but we're in a holding pattern while we figure things out during the explosion of the sport & the growth of live disc golf.

I think the next evolution for the pro side is going to be the transition to mainly private or p2p courses. Paul McBeth is working on a pro course, Cale Leiviska Founder of the Airborn Disc Golf Preserve, is now part of the DGPT. It's much easier to custom build a pro level course, and tweak things dynamically as needed, compared to dealing with public courses.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Ten years? We just had what... a 15 year old on a lead card. The sport does need some tweaks on the pro side, but we're in a holding pattern while we figure things out during the explosion of the sport & the growth of live disc golf.

I think the next evolution for the pro side is going to be the transition to mainly private or p2p courses. Paul McBeth is working on a pro course, Cale Leiviska Founder of the Airborn Disc Golf Preserve, is now part of the DGPT. It's much easier to custom build a pro level course, and tweak things dynamically as needed, compared to dealing with public courses.

When I say ten years, in ten years 1040 might be the norm for the touring player. There could be 100 players rated above 1040. Think about all the kids (10-15 y/o) seeing McBeth making it big in disc golf. Yeah it is exploding. We might be just seeing the tip of the iceberg still in regards to quantity of players at the elite level. The quantity and quality is only going to increase. As great as Climo was you have to say McBeth is a much better player today and the ratings agree.

So how do you make changes to challenge players?

Course design obviously has to get better but I don't think you can only keep up with course design either. I believe the basket has to be addressed at some point. Most the pro's agree as well who have ever commented on it (Simon, McBeth, Uli, Oakley, Freeman, etc...) They all say the basket has to be made smaller or modified in some way to challenge putting.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Several of these "forecasts" overlook the currently sustainable, still missing or weak, and potential money vectors in our sport, the impact of several which is unknown. For example, the unexpected boost for Covid was certainly not predictable.

 

[reezyF]

While watching this hole on the GK coverage Kevin Jones & Luke commented at length about how he thinks this is a nice green design.

"This green easily one of the hardest on the course...(luke)"
"I do like the green here because ... there's a green that you can layup to no problem" (KJ)
"I love the sand feature on this hole too... if you spike one into the sand you know you have thrown a great shot"

No mention of the poopsticks though. They really didnt appear to be in play.

 

[reezyF]

and then of course in the 2nd round footage the "pretzel sticks" are about the only thing they talk about when McBeth lands behind them.

 

[Shankapotamus]

I was definitely way off on the Slim Jim's. Very odd design element, indeed!

 

[Danderlion]

I was watching final round on DGN yesterday... one of the announcers kept calling these things meat sticks. I'm pretty sure I heard meat sticks about 5 times within a 5 minute stretch. I couldn't believe that is what the official live stream was calling them.

 

[ru4por]

Aaannnnnnddd.......we have our next small basket thread. LANDFILL

 

[Nick Pacific]

I think the next evolution for the pro side is going to be the transition to mainly private or p2p courses. Paul McBeth is working on a pro course, Cale Leiviska Founder of the Airborn Disc Golf Preserve, is now part of the DGPT. It's much easier to custom build a pro level course, and tweak things dynamically as needed, compared to dealing with public courses.

I think this is going to be part of it, but also I think an even bigger part will be events held on temp courses at exclusive ball golf country clubs. As disc golf gets bigger and more money is injected, the sponsors will push for this. There are only a handful of people who have private p2p championship level courses, and it's a lot of time/investment for one person to manage.

The existing infrastructure is already there at ball golf country clubs. We started on lower level places like at DDO, but eventually we will continue to get more access to higher quality clubs.

As our sport and crowds grow, it's going to be the only way. No disrespect to the private P2P courses, but eventually our sport will be in a place in which having an event out in the country on a farm just won't be feasible to manage a galary of 5 thousand people. Lodging? Nearby restaurants? Space? Parking?

We will need to have events near cities that can manage the entire operation. This is why even what Cale has at the preserve and Biscoe has will only be a intermediary from now to where eventually we are going.

 

[Golden Tuna]

I for one would love to play a course that is full of whacky man made obstacles! Almost like a giant mini golf course but for disks there would of course be golf cart rentals and refreshments available in the clubhouse as well as on the course. what pros do you fellas think we get to go in on something like this?

No thank you. I feel like our sport has just recently gotten some credibility outside our own users and leaning towards "putt putt" would be a step backwards IMO.

I think a good start for challenging pros AND getting more entertaining dg content would be to change pin positions each day.

Interesting concept. Though not entirely empirical, consider this...
We've conducted multiple after-event players surveys from past B-Tiers and our A-Tier. This data feeds into our plans for the forthcoming St. Louis Open in September - register today....

I am the TD, and I value natural skill, adaptability, and the ability to scramble in disc golf. So, I wanted to make pros play three rounds on three different courses - The data indicates pros will only play two courses at most (and they prefer only one)

If we were going to lay down a bunch of added cash on top of the minimum (like we are) I wanted players to have to play four rounds to win the event (1 Friday, 2 Saturday, & 1 Sunday) - The data indicates people will not register to play an event like that...

As a masochist, I want the best player to win "my" tournament. I want it to be a a grueling, hard-fought victory. My board (and the data) told me that no one would show up for an event like that...

Now, to me, all that sounds pretty weak... But, the career I chose includes a fixed salary for sitting in an office all day. I don't have to travel to compete for my income. So, it is easy for me to sit here and determine the parameters for which (I think) athletes should earn their income.

While I do think we can "solve" some of these problems by implementing more variety/courses in an event, I am not sure how well received that will be from a player's perspective.

The basket discussion:
I am generally not a fan of altering the baskets. I think this creates a cost-prohibitive nightmare for converting old courses, tournament standards, round ratings, etc.
That said, since we're just talking online to avoid real work, I think a lot of people in this conversation assume the natural progression is to eliminate the outer strands of chains, effectively leaving us a bullseye basket to putt at. While I think this is far too punitive for new/young/unskilled players, an alternative may be to make a carbon copy of the existing basket, just 15% smaller all around. Picture a baseball next to a softball - indiscernible, except for size.

 

[takman]

Didn't seem to be any issue with them so far, except for what to call them.