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Laura Nagtegaal 2019 Amateur World Champion FA40
- Thread starter DiscFifty
- Start date
joshuajames
Double Eagle Member
Well...let's hear your opinion.
cox3
Par Member
Laura Nagtegaal was born a male. The individual now identifies as a female. The PDGA is allowing transgender individuals to compete in the division of the gender in which they identify. Nagtegaal won the FA40 division by 21 strokes in a field of 17. Nagtegaal competed exclusively in mixed divisions (also, no longer referred to as men's divisions by the PDGA) from the time they became a PDGA member in 2010 until 2019.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
Getting worked up about a geezer?
I'll save my outrage for something more interesting.
I'll save my outrage for something more interesting.
I started the thread because regardless of anyone's position, this was an historic day for disc golf.
Flick Maniac
* Ace Member *
Fun little story... I was at a event in Mijas, Spain. Waiting for the missing person in our group to arrive at the tee. Dude walks up, says hi I am with you, I tell him no actually we're waiting for a Laura, thats me he says. Oh okay. *awkward silence ensues*
Nothing against her, just was a odd little incident. Now I know who she is. Shes done a lot for the PDGA, kudos to her.
http://pdga-europe.com/2018/11/farewell-to-interim-administrator-laura-nagtegaal/
Nothing against her, just was a odd little incident. Now I know who she is. Shes done a lot for the PDGA, kudos to her.
http://pdga-europe.com/2018/11/farewell-to-interim-administrator-laura-nagtegaal/
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
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SonicGuy
Banned
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Glad that she agrees with me that you cannot be a good male disc golfer only driving 300' :thmbup:
The PDGA recently clarified their stance on male-to-female transgender players, and what divisions they are eligible for, based on consultation with medical professionals plus other international competitive standards.
https://www.pdga.com/medical/gender-protected-divisions-eligibility-policy
Players have to submit fairly strict medical results on hormone levels, including a doctor's signature, to the PDGA.
Seems completely reasonable to me. Congrats to Laura!
https://www.pdga.com/medical/gender-protected-divisions-eligibility-policy
Players have to submit fairly strict medical results on hormone levels, including a doctor's signature, to the PDGA.
Seems completely reasonable to me. Congrats to Laura!
bwgort
Birdie Member
She makes a really compelling argument that the PDGA's current rules as constructed are flawed in that they allowed her to qualify for the world championships in 2019 during the 2018 season, when she was not eligible for the division she qualified in.
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I'm not sure it's really a flaw in the rules. Players qualify for divisions at Worlds before they're eligible ALL THE TIME. I qualified for this year's Masters Worlds in MP40 despite being ineligible for that division last year because I was only 39. I know there are plenty of men and women, pro and amateur in the same boat each year. Not sure why it should be different in Laura's case.
The PDGA has eligibility requirements to play in a division. If the player fails to meet them one year, but meets them the next, why should that prevent them from playing in that division for which they now qualify?
bwgort
Birdie Member
Because the player who qualified (Hans) no longer exists. Your analogy about masters is very different than this situation. And she is the one who said this is unfair. I'm just agreeing with her perspective. I think she is much more qualified than either you or I to make this determination, given her personal experience.
to get 300 something feet of distance?
SonicGuy
Banned
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I don't think anyone (at least I hope nobody would) try to win an amateur age and gender protected "championship" by going through an intense life altering medical ordeal. But that isn't the issue. Regardless of the intentions of the transition, Laura is advantaged over her cis gendered competitors.
One of the main reasons that activists want children to be transitioned before puberty is because testosterone hugely affects body composition during that growth phase. Simply removing the testosterone as an adult does not reverse the intense physiological differences in structure and bone mass that Laura has.
I think if you ask Laura she probably wishes that she had transitioned as a pre-teen and been allowed to avoid masculine growth patterns. It isn't fair that she has to endure the body that testosterone gave her. But it is also unfair to force cis females to compete against a transgender woman that has indeed benefited from a testosterone fueled growth pattern in puberty.
BigDickHyzer
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While I'm happy Laura got to become a *World Champion, I feel bad for the other competitors to were robbed.
At the end of Laura's reply, she ripped the other cardmates' lack of skills, exclaiming that was the reasoning for their loss, dismissing the fact that they were biologically and genetically inferior.
I truly hope that Laura finds whatever it is that will make her happy, as I'm sure this is not it. No doubt the work put into this tournament was significant but I'm not sure how beating the next closest competitor by 21 strokes could be satisfying.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
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Unlike 99.999999999% of people commenting with this approach, I actually SAW this group compete at the worlds. I was with them as a marshal for multiple holes.
There was move love and kindness than you see in MPO, FPO, etc. Literally hugging Laura, calling her "mama Laura" and etc.
Not a single one of the 2nd through 4th place women cared that they would have finished one spot higher without Laura competing.
So what's funny is why you think they were robbed, those that were actually effected in no way feel this way.
SonicGuy
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That may be the case. Or maybe our society punishes wrongthink so heavily that nobody would dare to voice opposition.
End of the day, there are a lot of unknown factors here. The only thing I know for certain is that there is a perfectly good division that everyone can play in, the mixed division. Why worry about any of the unknowns when there is an option available that is certain to please everyone?
When my daughter is old enough to compete I will encourage her to play mixed no matter what her gender identity or skill level. I just don't see the value in being the best of the lousiest. Approaching life as a challenge without stacking the odds in your own favor is a value I hope to pass to my children.
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