Learning curve is still steep

[VictorB]

So how do you push your hips forward, while keeping your weight behind your knee on your plant leg? It really doesn't make sense to me at all. I can glide the hips forward but end up over my knee. I can stay behind my knee but then my hips don't move forward like in the butt wipe or hersheizer.

 

[lucasgg]

Notice how the players move into the hershyser position and how the plant leg accelerates forward after the targetward hip hits the imaginary hershyser wall. Hope this visualization might aid in subconcious understanding of this situation.

 

[VictorB]

I'm just not seeing the same thing I guess.

 

[sidewinder22]

So how do you push your hips forward, while keeping your weight behind your knee on your plant leg? It really doesn't make sense to me at all. I can glide the hips forward but end up over my knee. I can stay behind my knee but then my hips don't move forward like in the butt wipe or hersheizer.

I think you are doing too much with both feet planted/weighted - there should be a reorientation/shift of your spine between the feet but always balanced upright to the shift. Dynamically you should be shifted completely upright stacked on the front leg despite being angled into the plant(Turbo Encabulator/Riding the Bull/Skier in Slalom). Your swing momentum should ideally carry your hips forward into a completely upright stacked and balanced finish position you can hold on to(Crush the Can pt2/Finish Position and Width of Stance).

Hershyzer Drill - rear foot pushing butt/hip into wall is before you swivel the chair and before you finish striding /planting the front foot/brace/crush the can. You should have complete control of your hips into the wall and be able to accelerate/have substantial weight force into the wall and be able to pull your hips back and forth an inch or two quickly/powerful. In the Hershyzer drill you can put your front foot down off to the side, but it is never actually weighted down/ finished striding forward into plant.

The Swivel Chair Drill - you should already be weightless on the rear foot, your hips/pelvis are freely rotating in place without moving forward, but still torquing forward from your rear instep. But since you actually move forward in the throw, this also ends up moving your hips forward more than rotating them in place(helps keep them more closed moving forward into plant and centered). Everything shifts/pivots/swivels centered forward. The front foot in wide stance/heel landing in the swivel chair drill would be swiveling/clearing the front hip after crushing the can.

All of the above may be mute if you don't get balanced onto the front leg to swing from though, figure out how to swing from your post/front leg. One Leg Drill. You keep planting your front leg facing too forward to actually release a swing forward without hooking it or releasing early. You also turn your head forward ahead of your swing - watch what the hell you are doing to the disc in your swing! You have to hit the disc before it can hit your target. This is a symptom of not shifting between your feet, from one foot to the other - you still have both feet planted/weighted simultaneously and plow over any brace attempt. You can't brace with both feet planted/weighted unless you actually shift both feet forward like a skier. In a throw you brace one leg from the other back and forth - leaving one foot and receiving on the other. In a standstill the back foot/leg braces the backswing, then transition/shift to front foot and brace the front side to swing forward like in the Reciprocating Dinglearm/Turbo Encabulator/Secret in Dirt pt1.

So much wisdom in these:

 

[VictorB]

The three things I'm going to focus on the most in the next couple of weeks are -

1. Keep pull line flat

2. Gas pedal press

3. shift weight fully over front foot instep

I'll keep posting clips of my field work. If I'm not seeing a difference in the next few weeks I might just scrap it until next offseason.

 

[DiscFifty]

400-425' on the course on a consistent basis is all I'm wanting to achieve.

"all I'm wanting" ? ? Throwing 400+ consistently is still an advanced to pro skill set, especially if you add in "controlled 400+ consistently". I think most players would love the same thing, and is not as common as you might think.

 

[VictorB]

"all I'm wanting" ? ? Throwing 400+ consistently is still an advanced to pro skill set, especially if you add in "controlled 400+ consistently". I think most players would love the same thing, and is not as common as you might think.

Well considering I have the skill set to throw 350'-375' pretty consistently and accurately right now, yes. I don't believe that's asking a huge amount for where I'm at right now, and all the things I'm doing wrong with my drive.

 

[DiscFifty]

Well considering I have the skill set to throw 350'-375' pretty consistently and accurately right now, yes. I don't believe that's asking a huge amount for where I'm at right now, and all the things I'm doing wrong with my drive.

No it's not and it's a great goal, I just read (perhaps wrongly...) that it seemed like it was something easily obtainable for most people. I DO think anyone can learn to throw 350, but once you're consistently throwing 400ft+ with control, imop that puts you in the disc golf minority more than the majority.

 

[VictorB]

No it's not and it's a great goal, I just read (perhaps wrongly...) that it seemed like it was something easily obtainable for most people. I DO think anyone can learn to throw 350, but once you're consistently throwing 400ft+ with control, imop that puts you in the disc golf minority more than the majority.

That's where I'm trying to get to. I've been playing at the 940-960 level for too long and I think redefining my throw is a good way to break that barrier. (Also consistency, but duh)

 

[sidewinder22]

3. shift balance/spine upright on to front foot

FTFY.

 

[VictorB]

After tonight's field work I think I'm done trying to make myself do something that is obvious I can't. Trying so hard to get in the right positions and everything looks the same as when I started. Where I feel like I'm trying to push the gas pedal and move over my front instep and press down, I see nothing different. I probably need to lose 20 lbs and get a new knee then start over again.

https://youtu.be/nZGDCStZiu4

Just like in any other sport, some people just don't got it, and I'm one of those people. I was always pretty athletic up until a few years ago and that's pretty hard for me to admit.

 

[VictorB]

https://youtu.be/FUFb8MZrbSM

 

[sidewinder22]

It's all in your head/philosophy of swing. You treat your backswing and forward swing like the disc weighs nothing. You need to treat it like it's a heavy sledgehammer.

Get a sledgehammer and toss it into the backswing from your body, feel the connection of your body and shoulder turn with the arm/disc/hammer and allow your body to work with gravity and smoothly transition to the forward swing. Feel the hammer's momentum pulling your arm/shoulder away from the target in the backswing, like the door frame should be pulling your body further into the backswing as you move forward into the plant, but still leveraged for the tug of war through your rear foot.

I would recommend swinging more like Feldy and Shultz, pre-swing forward completely and turn the body to bring the arm/disc back into the backswing. Throw some hammers and do some perpetual pendulum swinging/swing back overhead/reciprocating dinglearms/one leg drill.

 

[VictorB]

I've had success in the past with the previous swing but lost it somewhere along the way.

I also think the Devan Owens hop is actually better suited for me than an actual x step.

 

[sidewinder22]

I also think the Devan Owens hop is actually better suited for me than an actual x step.

I agree with you there. Hopping helps you get more athletic position naturally. I never really paid attention is Owens form before because he's lefty, but I'm a fan now. Some great rhythm and balance in that move, excellent finish position. I've never seen anyone else do a crow hop like that backhand, I thought he was going to throw forehand. Ulibarri(old form) and Moser use a hop off the back foot instead of the front foot , you should try that too. Should help teach you how to maintain better balance and turn/pivot back later/further into the backswing.

Owens in 12sec:

 

[billyjacko]

Is Uli doing what people refer to as a Double Hop?

VictorB, I said in post #30 you have mentallity issue, not a physical one. Just like sw saying, it's about getting into that final position for the pull. Right now your pressing to try to make subtle tweaks to your form, when you need accept there's more fundamental issues and try to abandon them. Believe me, I'm in the same fight where my body wants to do what I've trained it to (throw with crappy form) but my mind is telling it to do something else. Results can be very frustrating, but I believe in putting in real work to break through barriers. I think you do to, or you wouldn't be here posting questions and videos.

 

[VictorB]

Right which is why I'm willing to try a hop instead of an xstep. There's just something about the xstep I'm not getting so I need to switch something up to try and make my body move differently. And hopefully find that timing to brace over the front foot properly.

 

[Wasp]

"all I'm wanting" ? ? Throwing 400+ consistently is still an advanced to pro skill set, especially if you add in "controlled 400+ consistently". I think most players would love the same thing, and is not as common as you might think.

I'm glad someone else said this. Anyone reading these forums would think throwing 400 feet is common. I honestly think allot of people who claim they can throw 400 don't really know how far that is. I'm an AM 2 player who can throw 330-350 consistently and occasionally hit 370-380 and I have more distance then 90 percent of AM 2 players. The few times I've played AM 1 my drive distance is still in the top half.

Victor- my goal is the same as yours, to throw 400 feet consistently. I've been working on it myself and struggling. One thing I do know is your form doesn't have to be absolutely perfect to achieve that goal. My cousin is a 980-990 rated player and he can throw 450 consistently. He has a little rounding in his arm and he bends over a little but his weight shift is impeccable and he really gets his hips into the throw.

 

[sidewinder22]

Is Uli doing what people refer to as a Double Hop?

That's what I tend to call it, kind of feels like a double hop on the left foot.

 

[Kodachrome]

Anyone reading these forums would think throwing 400 feet is common. I honestly think allot of people who claim they can throw 400 don't really know how far that is. .

Your first statement is unfortunately true. It can give pause to many beginners who may become discouraged.

The second one, I used to think was true. But 400' is easily attainable with even just "okay" technique.