Ledgestone 2017

[Dana]

Hang on, I wasn't the person who said Jerm was leaving. That was Curtis who broke the news.

 

[JohtoVillage]

Dang this tournament must have sucked.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Innova gave me a replacement skirt and top for my Skillshot once, completely free. Am I a sponsored player now? :\

That's a completely different shade of gray.

 

[swhite]

Dang this tournament must have sucked.

No. You misunderstand. When we gripe and complain about something relentlessly, that means that we actually kind of do dig it.

That being said, I've learned to always wear my rose-colored glasses before wading in.

 

[JTacoma03]

We need a mod in here to change this to the whiney bitches thread.

If any of the pros don't like the tourney they should not show up. All I see is a guy busting his ass to raise serious money for them.

If you don't like it as a spectator don't watch. If you think tourneys should be ran better go run one.

The worst part of watching this tourney is the race to be outraged by all the idiots complaining.

I agree 100% in principle with what you're saying...but to be fair Nate has made his share of opinionated and defensive posts in the past...so he's gonna get what he's gonna get from some people.

...and btw I'm saying this completely aware that I'm guilty of the same thing, and I've had to learn to accept that.

The thing to remember about the dg community is, in general, everybody wants good things for the sport. There's only a tiny portion of people who just hate for no reason, most of the time people are just disagreeing on what constitutes making the sport better. That's a rarity in social communities and we shouldn't forget that.

 

[swhite]

Dang this tournament must have sucked.

Nate,

In my view, there is was a whole lot of great stuff in this tournament.

From my perspective as a viewer, most all the holes were great to watch.
Hole #1 An epic hole, with the water and big slope near the basket.
Hole #2 A good one for players to try out their rollers if they want to be aggressive. Looks like a good lefty hole.
Holes #3, 7 Relatively short wooded shots that still challenged players.
Hole #5 The fall field hole, which aggravated me somewhat last year, but seemed much better this year. I looked forward to seeing this hole in the later rounds.
Hole #6 Was the one that I griped about earlier in this thread. I would like to see some minor changes for the sake of the viewers. For all I know, the players may have a greater appreciation for this hole.
Hole #8 A challenging 793 ft fairway that ends at a super narrow green with water on one side and thick woods on the other. Lot's of risk/reward.
Hole #9 The bridge hole. Looks super fun. Every time someone would miss the island, I would think, "Oh, I could hit that!"
etc...

I could go on, but I wanted to list at least a few of holes to make a point that each hole has its distinguishing characteristic that makes it memorable. As a viewer, I can say that each hole feels very different. There was not that monotony that can happen when it seems the players are throwing the same types of throws (probably hyzer) over and over again on every hole, as happens at some big tournaments. I felt that none of the holes were simply gimmes for the players. They always had the option of being very aggressive, but knew they risk bad results from their aggression. Looking at the course, I would have thought that the big arms would dominate, but Josh Anthon wins big by throwing very sensibly. This is a tournament that definitely deserves a spot on the Pro Tour every year.

Thanks, Nate, for all that you put into this year after year. I, for one, am very appreciative.

 

[JohtoVillage]

Just for the record, I was joking with my comment. I am confident the tournament didn't suck because 95 to 98% of the comments I have received from players have been super positive. Not withstanding someone being caught on Smashboxx saying "All I can think about is how much I hate Nate Heinold" (which I laughed at), the comments from the top pros were very positive. We tried to focus more on the AMS this year as well and honestly we really didn't hear many complaints at all. Running a big tournament like this requires thick skin, and I haven't always had thick skin. We certainly have things to work on, and as much as I want to take a break for a while, my mind is already spinning. A few things already in my mind:

-Maybe add a few long tees to the Northwood layout that people played
-Move MG1 to the same pool as MM1
-Adding ICC into the course schedule next year (some of the long pins, which haven't been used in years, are awesome, and a few baskets have been tweaked so the course is playing really well right now)
-Making some more minor adjustments to Wildlife to make the course flow better
-Look to potentially have MA2 play McNaughton instead of MA3
-Upgrade Eureka temp baskets to championship Discraft baskets, which are in the works, and if that doesn't happen use Mach X's
-Permanent tees at Lake Eureka temp
-Slight adjustment to a few drop zones at Lake Eureka temp
-Rope/string the creek on hole 8 at Lake Eureka as OB and have a drop zone for OB sheets (creek that is 300' from the tee)
-Solidify another large corporate sponsor such as Pepsi or Maui Jim
-Since it looks like the Peoria Chiefs baseball team will be home next year during the weekend of our tournament, we would try to make the baseball night a bigger deal

Our goal is to always improve the tournament from year to year, and we will keep trying to do that. Thanks everyone for the support.

 

[BrotherDave]

For the 2 par tw…excuse me! "must get" holes 7 and 11, the reason is probably because they just didn't have many scores to hand out. However, holes 3 and 4 were giving out plenty of different scores, just without a lot of regard for the skill of the player. Here's hole 3.

Cool, I was wondering if hole 3 was playing a little poke and pray. It was kind of baffling me that so many players were going for that FH line that looked really risky to me. I really liked that FH flex line that Ulibarri threw a couple of times, he seemed to be figuring that hole out compared to the others.

 

[sjberry2017]

Shirley you jest!

I don't think he was jesting.

And why are you calling him Shirley?

(for the uneducatedddd.....I mean, the uninitiated)

 

[frasnow]

Our goal is to always improve the tournament from year to year, and we will keep trying to do that. Thanks everyone for the support.

I must say, I was impressed this year. The tournament is finally watchable...and enjoyable. Maybe it is because as a spectator I hate stroke and distance (thank you!), or the holes at Ledgestone are finally making sense. While some of the holes are still gimmicky, it's finally starting to feel like the USDGC. Hole 7 at USDGC is a gimmick throwing through the bamboo, but it has become iconic. I used to hate the water tower hole and the bridge hole at Ledgestone, but now with the changes, they have potential.

Now to convince Eagle...

 

[StevenSeagal]

Steven, you wrote in interesting and thoughtful post. Thank you. There was only one part that I really took umbrage with. The great Joe Pesci? Can we go for the above average or the fairly talented?

Thanks again.

BTW, I will stick with my notion of setting the bible aside. It's too easy to pick and choose the given moral platitude that fits one's needs. I'm particularly fond of the "you can't eat pork," one myself.

Thank you so much. I was more than a little worried that airing all that out would turn into a whole novel and come off way too holier than thou. I promise I tried my best to keep things as cordial as possible. Although we're going to have to agree to disagree about Pesci. As a kid I had a mislabeled VHS of Goodfellas that I use to show to the neighborhood kids to show how cool I was so I will forever be is his debt!

 

[Flick Maniac]

Two words: Home. Alone.

The tees (or lack thereof) was what disturbed me most about the course as a viewer (in addition to some really nondescript holes like 16 or something I would never remember what hole that was), however there seems to be a lot more chatter from the players about the baskets (and quite rightly so). I guess it is so common to have temp layouts even (or should I say especially?) in big tournaments where the teeing off area is off from where-ever and to the side also if player so chooses. It would not be impossible to build a dock type tee from wood, slap astroturf on it and voila, a proper tee you can more around and re-angle if you so choose. Store away properly for the next year and theyre ready to go.

But this may be from being used to proper astroturf teepads for about 90% of the 145 courses I have played over here.

 

[joecoin]

When Josh finished out the final hole, I was impressed to see the warm congratulations he received from all three of his card mates. He accepted their congratulations and conducted his victory interview with Terry with humility. It appeared that Josh played and won Ledgestone with class. Good for him.

But he looks so angry when he throws off the tee!

 

[puck'n'disc5]

I was home alone the other day when my cousin, Vinny, showed up. He said he was home alone too and was wanting to go somewhere. He's a goodfella, but he wanted to go to the casino. Talked him into goin fishin instead.

 

[Dana]

Two words: Home. Alone.

The tees (or lack thereof) was what disturbed me most about the course as a viewer (in addition to some really nondescript holes like 16 or something I would never remember what hole that was), however there seems to be a lot more chatter from the players about the baskets (and quite rightly so). I guess it is so common to have temp layouts even (or should I say especially?) in big tournaments where the teeing off area is off from where-ever and to the side also if player so chooses. It would not be impossible to build a dock type tee from wood, slap astroturf on it and voila, a proper tee you can more around and re-angle if you so choose. Store away properly for the next year and theyre ready to go.

But this may be from being used to proper astroturf teepads for about 90% of the 145 courses I have played over here.

Most of the DGPT Pros would prefer 'proper' astroturf, per a recent poll. Personally, I'm hoping that Nate can get the ok to professionally install turf out there so that when tourney time comes, we are good to go. I think the majority of the course is very solid in its current layout, so permanent tees could work.

 

[Mocheez]

I was home alone the other day when my cousin, Vinny, showed up. He said he was home alone too and was wanting to go somewhere. He's a goodfella, but he wanted to go to the casino. Talked him into goin fishin instead.

Fail. You didn't include Lethal Weapon.

 

[osborne]

Based on what the park is used for I am pretty sure of the answer to this but I will ask anyway. Is there any thought or possibility of making Eureka temp into an additional 18 at Eureka as a permanent course? This tournament is great every year and I enjoy watching but it is a shame that with so many great courses in Peoria we showcase a course to the dg public that isn't even playable outside the tournament times.

 

[jvphobic]

However the flip side of this PR endeavor is completely outclassed by Anthon and that's what I find so wrong and abrasive. Terry and Jon did not display the same level of consideration or respect as Anthon and in my opinion came off as absolutely flippant and disrespectful not only to the "trolls" and "haters" that have reservations about Anthon and his actions but to the gravitas of the issue of race relations in the US both past and present. For example 56 minutes or so in Jon says as a response to the criticism Anthon has received for his tattoo, "I always thought this was really humorous in general because when I met your originally I think it was with one of your great friends Steve Rico. " Then Terry adds something to the effect that Steve isn't white.

To quote the great Joe Pesci, "Funny how? I mean, funny like I'm a clown? I amuse you? I make you laugh? I'm here to ^%&*#@!$' amuse you? "

...

Unfortunately the DG community didn't get the conversation it really needed and it did a disservice to everyone including Anthon. We basically got a very pained five minute conversation where Jon danced around stating the obvious while laughing nervously and being dismissive, Terry made faces like he wanted to blow chunks and die while laughing nervously and the ex-con with a questionable tattoo and even more questionable comments showed himself to be the most composed, cognizant, respectful and most importantly apologetic for the quagmire which is this whole issue.

Like I said originally I think the best thing for everyone is if they just focus on the positive and let Anthon bear his own cross because he's obviously better at it than everyone else.

Yes, I probably did come off as flippant and dismissive. And that could be because of my personal interactions I have had with Josh for the past 15+ years. I am one of the few people in this discussion that has spent time with him off the course. Before his incarceration we went out drinking and dancing at more than a handful of clubs and bars throughout the country. And in my experience with him, he has NEVER shown an ounce of hate towards anyone or any particular people. The first time I met him and many times since he has been surrounded by people of different ethnic backgrounds.

Ultimately this Tuesday night SmashBoxx podcast was not a place to get into a very deep conversation about race relations in disc golf. Did I seem a bit nervous... maybe? I don't recall it directly, but when you are live things kinda come at you fast and you are thinking on your toes. And in general I am not the main interviewer on the show. That isn't my strong suit (I am working on it!!!), so it could have just been me stumbling through questions like I do at times. Some would argue that I have no right to discuss it at all coming from a white, middle-class, blue collar family and that my opinion doesn't hold a lot of weight anyway. Someone on the chat during the broadcast brought up a valid point about 3 white guys dismissing a 17 year old "white pride" tattoo, and I couldn't argue with it.

None of us know what is truly in Josh's heart. All I can go by is what I have personally witnessed, what I have heard from others, and what he says. And for ME, they all align in the same direction. Josh was a great guest and he has won over more than a few more fans due to the interview and how he conducted himself.

There is a great conversation to be held as to why we have such a lack of diversity in our sport. Is it where the courses are located? Is it that we don't teach it in urban schools? Does Disc Golf need it's "Tiger moment" to introduce the sport to a new segment of the population? This isn't the thread to do that in, but I think that it could be a very good discussion.

 

[lyleoross]

I don't think he was jesting.

And why are you calling him Shirley?

(for the uneducatedddd.....I mean, the uninitiated)

No sir, you were correct. Uneducated. This segment of Americana is as important as any historical fact I ever learned. And funnier to boot.

 

[lyleoross]

Thank you so much. I was more than a little worried that airing all that out would turn into a whole novel and come off way too holier than thou. I promise I tried my best to keep things as cordial as possible. Although we're going to have to agree to disagree about Pesci. As a kid I had a mislabeled VHS of Goodfellas that I use to show to the neighborhood kids to show how cool I was so I will forever be is his debt!

You took a balanced approach presenting his side and yours. If only our politicians could be so adult.