Long to Short or Short to Long?

[optidiscic]

@optidiscic

So because you tried to play beyond your level means other people can't play within their level throwing long holes? That makes no sense. How about he learn from your mistakes and NOT try to hit lines he is incapable of. Instead, how about he hits the lines that make sense for his game.

I posit that throwing holes that you can always reach is bad for your game. When you step up to holes outside of your range you will try to overextend yourself and fall into the trap you previously explained. Why doom him to be a "short tee" player? If he learns to lay up and play within his ability consistently he can go out and play leagues and tournies with success from the get go.

And what crap about putting. If you want max reps putting go to a basket and putt. Most people go into a day knowing they will play 1 or 2 rounds, and that will not deviate because of the length of the course. If I get done with the 1 round early I hit the road and get some errands done.

I disagree

 

[optidiscic]

@optidiscic

So because you tried to play beyond your level means other people can't play within their level throwing long holes? That makes no sense. How about he learn from your mistakes and NOT try to hit lines he is incapable of. Instead, how about he hits the lines that make sense for his game.

I posit that throwing holes that you can always reach is bad for your game. When you step up to holes outside of your range you will try to overextend yourself and fall into the trap you previously explained. Why doom him to be a "short tee" player? If he learns to lay up and play within his ability consistently he can go out and play leagues and tournies with success from the get go.

And what crap about putting. If you want max reps putting go to a basket and putt. Most people go into a day knowing they will play 1 or 2 rounds, and that will not deviate because of the length of the course. If I get done with the 1 round early I hit the road and get some errands done.

A real gold level championship course demands you hit certain lines......for instance many holes if you just laid up at the course I am talking about you are left with another difficult shot....you really are just as well to go for it. I realize now that Minnesota must not have anything remotely as challenging as the East Coast...it's what I've heard and I am starting to believe it. If I went out and just threw controlled shots on the course I attempted to learn on I would often end up with just as bad a look. Landing areas on this course demands distance precision that more often than not demand a full pull to reach......so if you lay up your not getting to the landing area and basically getting a punishing look....and that's for shots on the fairways....I think it's more enjoyable to play a course that you can hit landing zones 1/2 the time rather than be in the crap all day long. I'm a huge fan of the course I am referring to...I even helped build it and some of the concepts on the course were my idea that were graciously approved by the designer...a gold level player....and btw...who really ever just goes to a course and lays up on every shot?...is that pushing yourself is that gonna help you improve? I don't think so. So I could've take your boring advice when I was learning and lay up all over the course and take a 100 or I could push myself and make mistakes and be in the 80s. Again the course I am discussing punishes lay-ups and the landing zones are often a full pull away to set up your next drive....playing this course as my learning course was a mistake...I think playing multiple times a week is the best way to improve and playing such a brutal round was usually only good for doubles and maybe 1 other time a week.
As for putting....theres a difference between putting during a round and putting for practice. I notice the best short players have short courses where putting is much more important than line shaping and long D....these guys don't miss inside of 10-15 meters. I fully believe it's from playing a short course where a simple par 54 yields over 1/3 of your shots to be putts (most are shooting under par).....on a championship par 72 less than 1/4 of your throws are putts (most will be well over par)...throw in that in 3 hrs you can play 3 rounds on the simpler course and you have over 3 times as many putting scenarios under round conditions than I did struggling against the beast....throw in precarious pin placements and I'd ofen lay up than go for it....I confess I didnt always wanna chase my disc 100 feet down a hill or be in the water or off a cliff.....championship courses can do that to you....If you wanna improve play simpler courses and layouts and every so often challenge yourself on the mighty gold level courses.

 

[eegor]

Playing on a course with multiple tees and pins.

As a rookie I'm playing short tees to short baskets.

Now I want to bump up my game. Do I move back to the longer tees and throw at the closer baskets or stay on the short tees and throw at the longer baskets?

Make it a day... play short to short, short to long, long to short and long to long. The more disc golf the better.

When you can no longer reach the putting area with your drives, you have to learn to manage the course to fit your game. That's as important as good putting.

Most importantly, keep on throwing and having fun. If it gets to be like work, go do something fun.

 

[optidiscic]

I take back the MN has weak courses...Ive never been there and I guess you touched a nerve....I mean Chuck is from MN and I think he agrees with me on this point

 

[Speedly]

This is actually a topic that comes up on many golf forums. With the multiple tees that are on golf courses, it kind of likens to the multiple tees and baskets, so long as you can somewhat quantify each one's difficulty in relation to the other combinations.

The consensus there is, you start from the easiest set of tees (in your case, this would be short tees to short baskets). You set a goal of, say... 10 over. The goal doesn't have to be +10, but whatever it is, it should be attainable, but you shouldn't immediately shoot for the stars and set your goal to be even par if you've never broken into single digits over par. You then work on that set of tees only, working on having a target within your reachable distance and not just hucking it out because you've no other choice.

Once you average your goal over, let's say five games, you move up to the next combination (let's say long tees to short baskets). Since the difference shouldn't be all that drastic, you can leave your goal at +10, because you've increased your difficulty by adding distance. You continue to work and try to bring your score to that average of +10. As a result of your experience on the short tees, you know that there are some lines you can and cannot attempt on that hole further up, and you can start to work on your approach game more.

The focus of this combination is to work on distance a bit, but more importantly, disc placement. If the pin is 300' out and to the left, you can throw it 290' to the right, and can still have a 150' shot if you really screw it up. Strategy starts to come into play more.

Once you get to your goal again, move to the next set of difficulty, and finally to the hardest one, where you can hopefully be skilled enough to play decently as a result of your training on the lower levels.

The point of all this is that improving performance is greatly aided by having definite goals, and not by just going out and hucking plastic. Each step up adds a small amount of variables to the equation, and teaches you better control and course management than the last, while at the same time giving you the chance to succeed at each level by giving you realistic levels of difficulty (as opposed to just turning it up to the max immediately). Another reason that this system is beneficial is that if you're playing way outside your ability, you're also probably holding up the course and the people behind you searching for lost discs and taking extra shots.

If you want to just go out and huck plastic and have fun, then don't worry about all this, and just go have fun! But if you want to improve, you have to have goals, and a direction to go, and hopefully this gives you an idea on how to set and achieve those goals.

 

[New013]

i'd say mix it up, play them all. turn one course in to four.

 

[MNcyclone]

I take back the MN has weak courses...Ive never been there and I guess you touched a nerve....I mean Chuck is from MN and I think he agrees with me on this point

Retraction accepted, I was ready to rip you a new one.

Chuck is coming from a different place than me. He is concerned with making courses that are successful and available to everyone. It is better for course PR if new people enjoy playing them, and for the most part a shorter course is more enjoyable to the average thrower. I am not concerned with this.

You described holes with specific target landing areas to set up your green approach. That is a lay up. I fail to believe your courses out there are at a level where laying up is so much of a challenge you would rather throw a slightly shorter hole and not try to lay up. What, are the shorts like 150' closer or something? Are there pits of vipers off the long tees but bottles of sunshine by the shorts? I hear plenty of people on these boards talk about successfully navigating long tees on east coast courses. I have played a couple from the longs and I have lived to tell the tale.

 

[olkok]

If you really want some variety, flip a disc for it. Heads for short tee tails for long tee. Flip again, heads for short pin, tails for long pin.

 

[pchitti]

Playing on a course with multiple tees and pins.

As a rookie I'm playing short tees to short baskets.

Now I want to bump up my game. Do I move back to the longer tees and throw at the closer baskets or stay on the short tees and throw at the longer baskets?

Rotate different rounds. You have the option to play 4 different courses at one location. Play them all so you work on different shots.

 

[swatso]

The long basket is usually the heaviest guarded or most elevated

For the courses I've played that have two tee locations and two baskets, I have found, in general, long-to-short to play easier than short-to-long. In my experience, long-tees primarily add length, and only somewhat harder look-angles, while long-baskets, in addition to adding length, also add loads of trees! :doh:

My local course, Patapsco, is 2x2, and I have kept stats for every round I've ever played there - just under 100 - and roughly an equal number of S2S, L2S, S2L, and L2L. For what it is worth, my long-to-short rounds average about 7 less strokes than my short-to-long rounds.

In terms of difficulty, I have found multiple tee/multiple pin courses usually go like this:

(Easiest to hardest)

Short tee-short basket
Long tee-short basket
Short tee-long basket
Long tee-long basket

The long basket is usually the heaviest guarded or most elevated

-2 cents.

 

[ForTheGlory]

You guys are awesome. I really appreciate all the input.

This site ROCKS! (or should I say... This site ROCs!)

 

[GLong]

my home course (for a few more days) has 2 tees and baskets on each hole. i recommend playing all of them even if you are a beginner and lack the skillset to play well on the more challenging layouts. you have 4 courses in one, take advantage of each one.

as mentioned on the last page, go out for a round and flip a disc on each hole for layout. you can flip for tee and basket on each hole, or you can play all of one tee/basket and flip for the other. mix it up and keep things interesting.

 

[craftsman]

Imo, at a busy course, if youre playing longs and are averaging over par on every hole- you may be causing a back up and looking foolish.

I however come from a busy dgc area. Alot of players play their rating and almost all dubs are run from the shorts.
I started on longs, looked like a fool, moved to shorts, and now finally back to longs. It took four years for me to feel comfortable from the longs.

 

[HarkeyPuck]

If you want to get better play long/long for a couple rounds. Then play short/long and you'll be surprised how much easier it seems.

 

[Tee1]

I'm just now getting to the point where I feel like I'm ready to start playing from the longs at my home course.I've set certain goals for myself as a player and now that I'm consistently shooting par and a few under some rounds I feel like I'm ready.I see a lot of new players throwing from the Blues who can't even reach the shorts on their drives.I think its a good idea to play within your skill level and set a score goal for yourself and when you hit that consistently step it up.