Longevity of Private Courses

[BogeyNoMore]

With the growing number of private courses and the attention many of them are going, I thought a thread dedicated to issues regarding their longevity seemed in order. Private courses can close down for any number of reasons:

• Cost of maintaining/running a course exceeds course income.
• Property owner decides to repurpose or sell the property.
• Course proprietor becomes too old/ill to keep it up (or dies).
• Proprietor doesn't have time/resources to keep the course running as a viable entity/gets burned out.
...probably almost as many reasons as there are courses.

A couple of private courses in my area closed down a little over a year ago. One of them was just single element of a commercial enterprise. The owner of the complex decided to sell the land to some developer or company.

The other course closure involved the course designer renting the property from the land owner and promises not being kept by the property owner ...but I can't help but think that the hassle of making sure that someone was always there to collect fees/enforce passes/waivers, plus the ongoing maintenance with very limited ca$h flow were huge contributing factors. Place was well maintained, and I personally saw the guy mowing all the time. Regulars couldn't help but notice things improving on a continual basis.... and after 2-3 seasons, they closed shop.

What happens when Bill simply isn't able to keep up with Flip City?" ...feel free to substitute the course/owner of your choice.

Given how shakey things seem at Highbridge (from what I've read here) I kinda wonder if I'm gonna make it out there before that place closes it down.

Does anyone know of any private courses where people have already made plans for the smooth succession/continuation of the course after the proprietor moves on (in whatever sense that might be)?

I have no clue if the folks who maintain the courses in Mason County plan to keep Flip going. I suspect they already help out with maintenance (but don't know for sure), and I certainly don't know what Bill and his family's plans for the property are.

Course owners: Have any of you actually made plans for your course to carry on after you decide you've had enough (or worse)?

Club members: Have any of you made such plans with owners? Do you truly help out enough to seriously help the people running private courses in your area keep from getting burned out prematurely?

I hate to think it's simply a matter of "better play 'em while you got the chance" ... but have a feeling that's the case for the most part. :\

 

[DavidSauls]

I'd rather not think about it.

 

[DavidSauls]

Private courses are ephemeral. My list of all-time favorite courses is cluttered with extinct private courses. Plus a few bucket-list courses I never got to play.

Stoney Hill has the benefit of two co-owners, so would have a decent chance of continuing if one of us died. But there are other pitfalls that could cause its demise.

So love your private courses while you can, I say.

 

[tallpaul]

My wife just chuckles now, and says, "you always say that"....when I say, "You never know how long this one will be around."

 

[InnocentCrook]

Like David, I'd rather not think about it too much. I'm about 12 holes into what I hope will one day become 18 to 27 holes.

Of the 65 acres that make up our property, my wife and I own 55 and her twin sister and her husband own the other 10. We're the only ones that currently live on site and thus the lion's share of the maintenance is solely on my shoulders and it's a hell of an undertaking. I could see how one or a combination of any of the things you listed could bring down a course.

I mow grass an average of 4 to 5 hours a week, usually broken up in chunks of 2 or 3 hours. In the spring when the rain is plentiful I mow more, in the summer when it's drier I mow less. When heavy rains come I usually have to spend a few hours re-grading the gravel driveway that gets washed out in a few places. When time and resources (money to hire a legitimate dozer/bobcat operator) allow I need to re-grade with proper slope to control the rain better but for now it's just band-aid repairs with my tractor as needed.

It's more expensive than I realized for sure. I didn't have a lot of the tools needed to maintain a piece of property like this when we bought it. Over the last few years I've acquired so many tools, big and small, hand tools and power tools. I don't even want to think about putting it all down and compiling the costs. Our co-owners have helped some on attachments for the tractor, and other items that are used for the course but overall it's mostly been on us. Hell, a sub-compact tractor is as much as a decent car. It's a great multi-use tool (mowing, grading, materials moving, but the mowing was taking me forever so we invested in a nice zero turn mower, which was another big purchase.

I'm only 36 so hopefully it's at least 30 years away, but I've thought about and would love to leave my land and whatever I make of it to the local county to be made into a park. That said, there's something about leaving the property and the house I designed and built, to my daughters if they want it. What they do with the course/land would be up to them, I can't force them to continue maintaining it. Hopefully they develop a love for disc golf as well but nothing is guaranteed.

As far as help from the local club goes. I made a post on the local FB page a couple months ago about an upcoming work day. I had a lot of people "like" the post, a couple people commented that they'd like to help. Come work day it was myself, my brother in law, and a fellow dg buddy that I used to work with who has helped a bunch already. I'm going to keep trying to get help for work days and would eventually like a set day every month (ex: last Saturday or Sunday of the month) that everyone knows is a work day and see if that helps.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I think setting a regular work day schedule might help, that way if someone's inclined to pitch in, at least they can plan for it, as opposed to "I woulda, but already got plans."

I'd like to think that running some sort of league at a private course would at least help ensure the manpower of some local club members at least as far as ongoing maintenance goes.

 

[DavidSauls]

Private courses tend to be in remote locations. It's hard enough getting volunteer help for a public course in a well-populated area.

Which also makes it difficult to run leagues or other regular events, on many of them.

"Private Course" actually covers a range of situations, including:

* Disc golfer owns the property ("living the dream")
* Property owner doesn't play disc golf, but knows disc golfer(s) who have arranged to put a course in
* Commercial property that puts in a private course as a sideline (think golf courses and ski slopes, though there are others).

The maintenance may range from marginal (on land that has to be maintained, anyway) to extensive.

 

[InnocentCrook]

I think setting a regular work day schedule might help, that way if someone's inclined to pitch in, at least they can plan for it, as opposed to "I woulda, but already got plans."

I'd like to think that running some sort of league at a private course would at least help ensure the manpower of some local club members at least as far as ongoing maintenance goes.

Yep. My plan is that what is primarily a work day now would turn into a monthly league type day as the course gets closer to completion.

 

[dreadlock86]

Does anyone know of any private courses where people have already made plans for the smooth succession/continuation of the course after the proprietor moves on (in whatever sense that might be)?

the McCormick property in central MO, where Ozark Mountain is (along with Akita's Run and Spencer-Davis). they sold the property a couple years ago and the new owners kept the disc golf courses and are planning to add a bunch of other stuff too (supposedly) like ATV trails, horse riding, paintball...

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Private courses tend to be in remote locations.

Gotta be the direct result of property values vs. population.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

the McCormick property in central MO, where Ozark Mountain is (along with Akita's Run and Spencer-Davis). they sold the property a couple years ago and the new owners kept the disc golf courses and are planning to add a bunch of other stuff too (supposedly) like ATV trails, horse riding, paintball...

I'm planning to hit that facility Memorial Day weekend, along with Harmony Bends.

 

[DavidSauls]

Gotta be the direct result of property values vs. population.

That, and parcel sizes. Closer to cities, more large parcels have been chopped up and developed.

 

[dreadlock86]

I'm planning to hit that facility Memorial Day weekend, along with Harmony Bends.

Harmony Bends is incredible; i love that course.

you are gonna $hit your pants at Ozark Mtn. that place is a DG paradise. the gold course is a one of a kind experience and should be a 5.0 based on the golf but it has some really ****ty natural tees. it's been years since i was there, hopefully they are in better condition now.

the other 2 courses are also 4.5 - 5.0 and if they whole place had some proper tees they'd probably all have 5.0 ratings. MAJOR elevation, especially on Akita's Run.

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

This 'issue' is business as usual for any private company or corporation. My feeling is that few in the disc golf community have gone to school on the business model for private country clubs to really see exactly how many of these ball golf courses/clubs are made viable (and about as 'permanent' as can be). Another issue may be the relative income level and willingness of disc golfers to fund such ventures.

For those ignorant of these types of golf clubs, basically a group of golfers band together, form a non-profit corporation and buy land to create their country club. They solicit new members, considered 'worthy' of joining. Everyone pays a membership fee and monthly dues. In addition, 'assessments' are infrequently performed, where members are 'asked' to pony up relatively large additional sums for capital improvements - like a major course redesign, new clubhouse (or other facility) construction or more land acquisition. All major strategic and most tactical decisions are made by a group of members called 'the greens committee', which is elected according to the by-laws of that particular club. It should be noted that, in my experience at least, private country clubs' membership is composed of rich, powerful, skilled and connected people from their community, which despite the political in-fighting which always arises from such a group of 'type-A's' means they can easily 'get things done' and are somewhat less hampered by financial and municipal obstacles than the typical disc golf club.

That being said, any landowner that already has a DG course, would be unlikely to consider such a deal unless the price is very sweet indeed, as they might be trading away their most valuable asset. The odds that a group of disc golfers would be able (or willing) to even put together such a deal are very low.

Of course there are other models for the creation and preservation of facilities, but most are equally as expensive and lack the control over the project and direction that a private country club would have as a matter of 'course'.

for what it's worth...

 

[DavidSauls]

That applies to some private courses---the ones trying to make money.

Many are a labor of love, perhaps taking collect some money to mitigate expenses. They are generally individually owned, and their continuation would depend on another disc golfer, probably in the family; or in rare cases, a club willing to step in on a volunteer basis, with the blessing of the family or future owner.

 

[nate22]

Our long range plan was to leave the course to the state club...but had nothing but issues with them since we started, culminating in being overlooked to host the state champs once again, an event we greatly needed to increase exposure in the area sooner. Now who knows, the works been done, but it will probably just grow over eventually.

 

[wolfmandragon]

The owner of Harmon Hills( the best course I have played on) died and someone bought the farm and has not only kept the course open, but has been making improvements on it.
I highly recommend this course to anyone whom is passing through East Tennessee.

 

[DavidSauls]

Rumor has it that, when the owner passed away, Harmon Hills was blessed with some extraordinary support from some local disc golfers. They should be applauded.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[donnyv]

Its tough. My course has gotten better and nicer over the past couple years but fewer and fewer players make the trek out here. Idk what were doing wrong. P2P and private courses wave of the future? Not so sure about that. I used to be open everyday but not anymore. It costs way more and takes up more time than people think. I'm not rich by any means either. Most people make way more than I do but they must think otherwise. I can't even make enough from dg to fill the mower with gas. I never really get a chance to play my own course so I set up a league day just so I get to once a week. Hardly anyone shows up even though I post it up on fb to 1200 local players. Why go on?