loose rock(s) behind lie

[dshort]

This may have already been answered, but I'm not up to sifting through 20-some pages of threads...

Disc lands in a dry creek bed, determined to be inbounds. Behind the lie is a loose flat rock on but completely behind the line of play, but unstable for purposes of throwing from. Is this considered 'loose debris behind the lie', and thus removable?

 

[sidewinder22]

Yes, but I'm sure somebody here will find some reason that I'm wrong.

 

[krupicka]

IMO these types of rocks are what make up the creek bed and are for all practical purposes should be consider the playing surface. In that case, it is not a casual obstacle.

 

[TYVEK]

IMO these types of rocks are what make up the creek bed and are for all practical purposes should be consider the playing surface. In that case, it is not a casual obstacle.

i would look on that rock the same way i look at pine cones and twigs/sticks behind the lie, they are moved to give solid footing to throw from.

 

[araytx]

This may have already been answered, but I'm not up to sifting through 20-some pages of threads...

Disc lands in a dry creek bed, determined to be inbounds. Behind the lie is a loose flat rock on but completely behind the line of play, but unstable for purposes of throwing from. Is this considered 'loose debris behind the lie', and thus removable?

Two things:

1 - I am a stickler about this. I think you mean "behind the marker" or "behind the thrown disc". The "lie" IS behind the marker, and we throw from the lie (or "on" the lie).

2 - I am back to you can't have it both ways -- but that's a TD problem/issue, not a you problem. If you contend that the thrown ended up on the playing surface, then by definition it has to be a place that can support you. It's not unusual for there to be an area of inbounds rocks, whereby we cannot (easily) stand or put a supporting point RIGHT behind the marker, but we can somewhere along the lie. On the other hand, if you're claiming the rocks cannot support a player along the entirety of the 30cm lie, then I am pretty sure that area should not be defined as a playing surface.

 

[krupicka]

i would look on that rock the same way i look at pine cones and twigs/sticks behind the lie, they are moved to give solid footing to throw from.

A rock that is a foot square (info from dshort in another message) is not the same thing as a pine cone, twig, etc. What we are talking about is a dry creek bed which is completely covered with rocks.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hmm, I was thinking about designing a rock trap similar to a sand trap.

 

[krupicka]

In the if I had my own course and lots of money dept, On a par 4 I would love to litter a section of the fairway with 2 cubic feet boulders and make players decide if they want to play short or try to clear the area. Landing in there would kill pretty much any run-up.

 

[TYVEK]

A rock that is a foot square (info from dshort in another message) is not the same thing as a pine cone, twig, etc. What we are talking about is a dry creek bed which is completely covered with rocks.

still no different, if there is a loose rock preventing solid footing it is treated the same. not all rocks are loose in a dry creek bed so one that is described above can be moved.

 

[Cgkdisc]

In the if I had my own course and lots of money dept, On a par 4 I would love to litter a section of the fairway with 2 cubic feet boulders and make players decide if they want to play short or try to clear the area. Landing in there would kill pretty much any run-up.

One of the several uncompleted plans for some holes at Highbridge. We were looking at placing scattered boulders in an area about 40x60 ft about halfway down the 1300+ fairway on Gold hole 8 where it might mess with rollers and likely require players to stand and deliver when landing in it.

 

[krupicka]

still no different, if there is a loose rock preventing solid footing it is treated the same. not all rocks are loose in a dry creek bed so one that is described above can be moved.

If it is something that you would normally walk on it is part of the playing surface. It's stuff like this where I think it is obvious (but is obviously not) that makes my course rules for events really long.

 

[JeremyKShort]

That's kind of in a fuzzy area, it depends on if you consider it a permanent part of the course, or a casual obstacle. Small stuff that you can kick out of the way with your foot is clearly casual, but as it gets bigger you'll get to a point that it's no longer casual. But I'm, not sure how big it would need to be. If it's in the ground good, I'd call it permanent. But if it's just laying on the ground? I don't know. I'd lean towards permanent, but you could convince me otherwise.

 

[Innova63]

One of the several uncompleted plans for some holes at Highbridge. We were looking at placing scattered boulders in an area about 40x60 ft about halfway down the 1300+ fairway on Gold hole 8 where it might mess with rollers and likely require players to stand and deliver when landing in it.

After the Infrasound event, no rocks are required for this.....
almost complete fairway is dried up mud from tire ruts, S & D is pretty much required.......

 

[ohtobediscing]

Another thing to consider is whether F&G approves of you altering the streambed of a public watercourse (The answer is "no"). Granted, in the example given, the stream is seasonal and obviously dry a lot of the time, but its there as a constant presence, not windblown debris, a temporary obstacle or flood damage.

If I saw someone on a course altering a streambed to improve their stance or runup, I would tell them off, but politely explain why they shouldn't do it. Of course, it wouldn't enrage me like chuckers breaking branches(whom I gladly report to the responsible civic authority for vandalism), but you still shouldn't be altering the course.

 

[ohtobediscing]

After the Infrasound event, no rocks are required for this.....
almost complete fairway is dried up mud from tire ruts, S & D is pretty much required.......

"S & D" ? Seek and destroy? Whu?

 

[krupicka]

S&D = Stand and Deliver here.

 

[ohtobediscing]

:doh: Shoulda known that. I think my coffee's broke...

 

[1978]

1. most parks have rules, even laws that dont allow you to remove or move stream rocks.
2. Im not answering the OP just asking a question. At what size does dead and detached end. Is a 1" diameter stick the same as a 12" diameter log? Is a softball sized rock the same as a disc golf bag sized rock. Rocks often are partially in the soial but can be moved. What about a softball sized rock that is burried halfway into the ground. What about a 1" diameter deadfall stick that falls in a water run off area and then is covered by 2" of silt... it does seem confusing.

 

[krupicka]

I look at it this way. If said rock,stick,debris, etc. has even the slightest chance that it could have showed up at that location that day (i.e. could have gotten there by the wind knocking it down or someone walking along and accidentally knocking it to that location), it could be moved.
If it looks like it was placed there or it's going to take two hands to move it, forget it.

 

[Steve West]

I look at it this way. If said rock,stick,debris, etc. has even the slightest chance that it could have showed up at that location that day (i.e. could have gotten there by the wind knocking it down or someone walking along and accidentally knocking it to that location), it could be moved.
If it looks like it was placed there or it's going to take two hands to move it, forget it.

It would be hard to find any of that logic in the rules.