Mandos without drop zones

[theabacus]

I was playing a local (not sanctioned, not strict event) tournament today. The course had a number of mandos. At the beginning of the tournament the TD stated that no mandos had drop zones, so you had to "rewind." I understood this as having to throw backwards to correctly go around the mando. No penalty stroke is incurred.

I looked up Mandatories in the PDGA rules. It states: "A disc that has missed the mandatory results in a one-throw penalty and the next throw shall be made from the drop zone, as designated for that mandatory. In cases where the drop zone is not designated, the lie is marked within five meters of the mandatory object and one meter behind the mandatory line which extends from the correct side of the mandatory." I cannot find anything regarding "rewind."

I interesting circumstance arose for me. There was a hole with a tree mando left (south side). For sake of clarity, I shall refer to "south" and "north" instead of left and right. South meets the mando requirement, north does not. My disc flipped over and went past the mando on the north side of the tree. For my second shot, I threw past the mando on the south side of the tree. For my third shot, I threw through the mando on the south side. See diagram for better explanation.

Questions:
1. Is the "rewind" concept not in the PDGA rules?
2. Does the "rewind" concept REQUIRE that I go back around the mando the same way in which I broke the mando? In diagram, my first short went north of the mando. However, my second shot back went south of the mando (instead of going north of the mando, the way I originally broke the mando). Is this "rewind" method incorrect?

Just curious. The tournament went long and I had other obligations, so I had to leave early, so it isn't a scorecard challenge or debate. Thanks.

 

[bradharris]

1. No it is not. PDGA rules state that once you pass the man do on the wrong side, you must take a penalty, there is no playing back around.

2. As an informal rule, it can be defined by the td, but I would take it to mean you have to play back around the wrong side before clearing it on the correct side.

 

[jenb]

Starting on January 1st, 2013, if no drop zone is specified, there is no longer a default drop zone at the mando. Instead, you must throw from the previous lie, which is the tee if you missed the mando on your drive. At that point, you would be throwing your 3rd shot, counting the first shot that missed the mando, and a one stroke penalty.

 

[tarel]

throwing back can cost more strokes than a penalty shot. i took a 6 on a silly mando once because of this crap when it was a 150foot gap with 30 feet to clear the mando

 

[Smigles]

IMO the second shot is illegal, it must also pass the mando on the "north" side so that you can properly play around the mando. I am no rules expert though.

 

[bombmk]

IMO the second shot is illegal, it must also pass the mando on the "north" side so that you can properly play around the mando. I am no rules expert though.

The second shot must do nothing. Because it should not be thrown from there - or at all for that matter.

There will be a _third_ shot.
Either rethrowing from the position of the first shot
or
a drop zone
or
from the mando line as specified in the rules(stated above in the OP)

In this case it seems like the TD stated the first option was forced.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Not a PDGA event. TD chose the old unwind rule for mandos that was changed to using drop zones in the 2002 PDGA rule revision. Shot 2 is not illegal but it did not meet the conditions of unwinding which would be to throw back around the wrong side of the mando before proceeding on the correct side.

 

[nicfit]

Pretty stupid to rewind on the wrong side of the mando, especially since good mandos are there for safety reasons. A second unsafe rewind shot is lame. I like the way the OP played it.

 

[Cgkdisc]

"Safety" mandos are bad mandos in the first place and the old unwinding rule made them worse. No mando should ever be created for safety reasons. If a bad throw from a location is a safety problem, a mando will not make it safer.

 

[nicfit]

I disagree. I think the only good mando is one there for safety reasons. At least it tries to limit the shots over that area.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Absolutely not. Any mando placed expecting a safer play environment is ill-advised. Players will still throw in the playground. The primary mandos that make sense other than efforts to make a hole more difficult are for general routing in areas where you don't want players to try funky routes like throwing backwards to go around the woods on the other side just to do it.

 

[Fishy]

We have a few Safety Mandos, they are to protect people that live along the course. Or to protect discers from having to retrieve discs out of back yards, which could be hazardous to their health. I think that in the Real World there will have to be Safety Mandos to protect other park users, home owners, other golfers in tight courses. There are also great Fun mandos that force a certain type of shot, if you don't have the skill to make the Mando in one there is always the layup option. To say that there should or can only be one type seems to me to put asinine limits on the game. It's like the stupidity of wanting to trim out a tree that splits a fairway because people lack the skill to go around or over or under it.
As for the "rewind" rule it seems stupid and the TD should be made aware of it. Also I'm guessing that he meant that you had to go around the same way you came.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Those are routing mandos not safety mandos presuming no one is likely to get hit with an errant shot.

 

[DoOgSauce]

I was playing a local (not sanctioned, not strict event) tournament today. The course had a number of mandos. At the beginning of the tournament the TD stated that no mandos had drop zones, so you had to "rewind." I understood this as having to throw backwards to correctly go around the mando. No penalty stroke is incurred.

Was this the tourney at JD in Boise yesterday? I took an 8 on hole 5 because I missed the mando then the rewind. I know the winter series is less casual, but the rewind rule is stupid. There should have at least been a re-tee option.

 

[Cgkdisc]

There was a re-tee option. You can re-throw from your previous lie any time you want with a 1-throw penalty.

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

There was a re-tee option. You can re-throw from your previous lie any time you want with a 1-throw penalty.

CK speaks the truth. Even if you can play from the lie you just through.

 

[Halcón]

Any mando placed expecting a safer play environment is ill-advised.

Truth.

I've seen WAY too many throws land on the playground at my home course, even though the mando is in place. Heck, I almost nailed a kid myself one time with a severe grip-lock.

 

[DoOgSauce]

There was a re-tee option. You can re-throw from your previous lie any time you want with a 1-throw penalty.

TD said we had to do the rewind. re-throwing was not an option.

 

[theabacus]

Thanks for the details about past rules, current rules, and future rules.

 

[keith johnson]

Not a PDGA event. TD chose the old unwind rule for mandos that was changed to using drop zones in the 2002 PDGA rule revision. Shot 2 is not illegal but it did not meet the conditions of unwinding which would be to throw back around the wrong side of the mando before proceeding on the correct side.

Not PDGA Event, but 2006 rules book was the change - not 2002.


In my opinion the new change for 2013 is bad as it just makes for lazy TD's -you should ALWAYS have to specify a drop zone even it is the tee pad.