Maple Hill Open

[Menacewarf]

And when a disc hits a wall above a nice smooth sloped surface, well we saw what can easily happen.

 

[paulw]

The drop zone is necessary not because of the island, but because of how close the OB walls are to the pin. Without a DZ, you're putting from a meter in from where it went OB which is a very easy putt. The one stroke penalty you take from going OB is likely no different than if you had to try to hit a long putt from wherever you actually landed.

The drop zone forces you to still hit a tough shot after the penalty is applied.

Again, this adds an extra element of risk and excitement to the hole.

What are you saying - ? Did you read what I wrote? I was criticizing the drop zone for Ricky's shot not for the penalty aspect of not making the peninsula . . .?

 

[bradharris]

What are you saying - ? Did you read what I wrote? I was criticizing the drop zone for Ricky's shot not for the penalty aspect of not making the peninsula . . .?

I had to go back and reread it three times before I deciphered what you were trying to say. Basically, you don't like that a shot that rolls off the green has to go back over the wall to the fairway.

The problem with the peninsula "solution" is that it sets up other more likely scenarios. Shots that roll back are rare. More commonly you'll see discs that land short, or that hit the tree on the left and bounce into that peninsula area.

So now you've made all of those shots safe as well.

 

[KaBooM]

I completely agree but the shot was not high risk. He threw it a bit poorly (for him) and it still should have been parked. He got unlucky to have it roll back OB. Simply put the odds heavily favored him going for it. It was a shot he should make 75% of the time. Take those odds and go for it.

I was following the lead card on Sunday and standing behind Ricky on his approach. I actually think that Ricky makes that throw much more than 75% of the time. I'm an injured Grand Masters, who at my best am rated ~ 100 pts lower than Ricky. That said, I'd like to think that i make the shot with my flick at least 2/3rds of the time (admittedly it probably would take me 2 throws to get into the neighborhood that Ricky did on his drive). I've got to think that any 1000 rated pro on tour, with a 1 shot lead, would go for the green 100% of the time. Now Brinster or Feldberg would with an anny backhand, but the same concept applies there as well. It just wasn't that difficult a throw for any good player.

 

[sprintermatt]

that is one of the trickiest greens in disc golf. just ask.... anyone who took a 5 going for it.

it was also windy that day. wind could have taken the perfect shot out of the perfect zone. perhaps he got windblown into the wall.

 

[wkelly42]

So you guys are pretty much saying:

If a teams makes a 2 and ties it up in basketball, you only have a few seconds to go..... Would you always go for the winning 3pt shot instead of 2 pointer and tie it?

opcorn:

Totally different situation. In golf (disc or otherwise) you ARE going to finish with a score on that hole. In basketball, you may not score ANYTHING when you shoot. You take whatever shot is a sure thing -- if you've got someone on a roll who has been hitting clutch threes all season, you put him to work and go for the win. If the threes haven't been there all game or all season, you take the tie and win it in OT.

Difference also in the way ties are handled -- golf has sudden death, basketball doesn't. Overtime in basketball gives you a set amount of time in which you can be down several points and come back again. Not so in sudden death, where if you lose the first hole you've lost the tournament.

It's totally situational -- there are places on that fairway where I would have expected Ricky to lay up and go for the tie. But not from that lie; that's a shot that he should make 8 times out of 10.

 

[AaronMonier18]

I know Paul's comments give us a lot to talk about but I was wondering if I could change the subject. I was at Maple Hill on Sunday for the final card on 18. It's my understanding that the drop zone is if you go over the green. Rikki's shot hit in bounds and rolled out. I questioned whether or not he should have putted from the drop zone or where his disc went out. It seems that Maple Hill has some ambiguous rules to their course. I think Rikki would have a much easier putt had he taken his lie where he went out. In hindsight, I wish Rikki had gotten Steve Dodge or a PDGA official word on the situation before putting from the drop zone. Heartbreaking way to lose a tournament.

As for Paul's comment I'll just say he lives the life of a touring pro and if that's the way he feels I have no problem with it. However, I feel it's slightly offensive to the people who work so hard to put on a great tournament that pays out more than any other event I know of.

 

[AaronMonier18]

Well, now it see this subject is on the table. My fault. I thought it was about Paul's comments. Apologies.

 

[Menacewarf]

that is one of the trickiest greens in disc golf. just ask.... anyone who took a 5 going for it.

it was also windy that day. wind could have taken the perfect shot out of the perfect zone. perhaps he got windblown into the wall.

Thank you as someone with first hand experience to recognize there is more to that shot than a lazy flick upshot. Trees, walls, weird angles, crowds, pressure, past history, having to shoot second from a worse angle, a sloped green, the chance to push available. Yah folks it's an easy shot in theory, a dump flick. But go out there with 500$ and a world of pride and competivness on the line and all those factors above weighing in on some realm of consciousness and then tell me it's easy.

 

[discguy42]

Thank to McFlySoHigh for the great film and edits from this tourney. I saved the final round for this morning...this might be my favorite vid I have seen this year ( or at least the top few). Congrats to you guys :hfive:!!!

Congrats to Jeremy on this big win :clap:!

Prodigy seemed to have the lead card stacked. They will have a lot of bragging/advertising rights from their showing at Maple Hill this year.

Lastly, Feldberg did not disappoint with his presence in the Lead card of round 3. Seems like the other guys were nice and tolerant of his antics. " 3 Minutes!!!" Too bad he couldn't keep it together :wall:.

 

[AaronMonier18]

I noticed Nate questioning that on video and they answer he got from the rules supplied. If you don't make the green you play from where you went out, not the drop zone. Sticky situation.

 

[coupe]

Thank you as someone with first hand experience to recognize there is more to that shot than a lazy flick upshot. Trees, walls, weird angles, crowds, pressure, past history, having to shoot second from a worse angle, a sloped green, the chance to push available. Yah folks it's an easy shot in theory, a dump flick. But go out there with 500$ and a world of pride and competivness on the line and all those factors above weighing in on some realm of consciousness and then tell me it's easy.

May not be easy for most of us because we've rarely been in that situation before; easy for Ricky or any other pro in the top 10 because they've practiced that shot thousands of ties and been in that situation dozens, if not hundreds, of times and have 100% confidence in their ability to execute under pressure. That's why they're touring and we're not.

AOBTW, about the $500: given the makeup of the card, I'd be shocked if the Prodigy guys didn't make a side agreement ahead of time to split the difference if they finished 1-2 or 1-2-3.

 

[optidiscic]

mandatory drop zones are awesome...we use 2 on our finishing holes and same rules apply...its where you disc finishes not where it skipped or flew over...if your shot finishes OB go to DZ...changes the pucker factor immensely

 

[Vorpaljesus]

Tell me the grand prize was not $500

 

[optidiscic]

difference from 1st to 2nd was 500

 

[AaronMonier18]

$2,500 for first and $2,000 for second. Some sarcasm may have flown over my head.

 

[Menacewarf]

May not be easy for most of us because we've rarely been in that situation before; easy for Ricky or any other pro in the top 10 because they've practiced that shot thousands of ties and been in that situation dozens, if not hundreds, of times and have 100% confidence in their ability to execute under pressure. That's why they're touring and we're not.

AOBTW, about the $500: given the makeup of the card, I'd be shocked if the Prodigy guys didn't make a side agreement ahead of time to split the difference if they finished 1-2 or 1-2-3.

Wrong. He's only been in that situation twice and both times went OB.

The pros stress this tourney as important. That is not just another shot. Pressure is your average tourney shot. Winning a big important tourney you already lost on that same shot in front of a huge gallery is a different level of pressure which I guess everyone just wants to poo-poo but I like to imagine (though of course you have to be there )

 

[coupe]

Wrong. He's only been in that situation twice and both times went OB.

BZZZT! Wrong.

He's may only have been in that situation twice during the final round at the Maple Hill Open, but he's faced that situation countless times over the course of his career to date, both as a Pro and an AM, both in competition and in practice.

Bottom line is this: Ricky played--and is going to continue to play--HIS game and ignore the "helpful advice" from the armchair anal-ists.

Thanks for playing, though.

 

[Menacewarf]

BZZZT! Wrong.

He's may only have been in that situation twice during the final round at the Maple Hill Open, but he's faced that situation countless times over the course of his career to date, both as a Pro and an AM, both in competition and in practice.

Bottom line is this: Ricky played--and is going to continue to play--HIS game and ignore the "helpful advice" from the armchair anal-ists.

Thanks for playing, though.

Ok expert. Say every shot is the same. Even then how many times has he played for the win, towards a huge gallery? Not countless I think mr expert. Find me a few examples and I'll be impressed cause I can maybe think of one beside the vibram and that's a vague memory. So enlighten me mr expert, coupe, on the dozens of times Ricky has shot towards a gallery for a win. Cause I remember two times. And both went OB. So ring your buzzer all you want. Your over-generalizing.

I hope he continues to play his game. Why do you think I'm trying to give Ricky advice? I'm just offering an opinion on stragatgey which I think is tough to ignore given events. But you play that easy card as hard as you want coupe. I problably woulda went for it too. All I know wa watching it live, I was really hoping he would lay up, and unfortunatly he didn't.

 

[Menacewarf]

BZZZT! Wrong.

Thanks for playing, though.

maybe some day you will get on the price is right and talk to drew carry. that seems like that would be important for you. i would be happy that someone else was happy :|