Maxing at 400ft on a good day, feel like I have awful lower body mechanics.

[Jillian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99G2HD_a9dg

Going to need to get some more recent footage of myself, this is now 4 months out of date but I think it's still representative of my lower body problems.

 

[seedlings]

This might be helpful to consider. Your X-step footing seems to be planted with toes almost 180* away from the target (but that could be camera angle). Keep your right hip going targetward, staying athletic, over the balls of your feet. I'm still working on form, so better advice will come soon.

 

[sidewinder22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=5m37s

 

[Jillian]

Just to check my understanding the two main things to work on here are:
1) Adopting a more neutral stance
2) Getting weight into the front of the back foot to avoid it spinning out?

I'm going to get out and work on this through standstills (as it's very evident to me how little my lower body assists in that) and will report back

 

[Jillian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-4jXGrIc6c

Footage from the field trying the advice out. I feel like in my practice swings I'm mimicking the desired motion quite well, but for one reason or another I'm completely reverting in actual throws. I'm really struggling to pin down what I'm doing wrong/when everything starts to go wrong in the actual throw, I don't suppose anyone can help me see?

Video is split into practice swings I though went well at the start, and throws with poor technique begin at 0:52.

Cheers!

 

[lostDoughnut]

For myself doing standstills makes some motions difficult to feel as Im not carrying much momentum. I was going through rocking the hips thread [which is a worthwile read] (https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134329) and this video helped me with my stand stills. For me to get some sort of bracing feel i wouldnt say i do a one step throw, but like a mini one step throw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypfx-L8qz08&t=611s

the video should start at a certain time. note what he does, he simply picks up his left foot then moves it to the left a little. when he picks up his left foot he is not pushing off of his right foot, but he is letting gravity make him fall and he places his left foot down to stop himself. its a very subtle movement.

ok so now that you have that little movement whats next?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mupt4ajjk5E&t=175s

this video will show from a timepoint how little subtle movement of sitting will get some movement going. (not sure how this relates to the lateral hip movement vs rotating, still figuring that out)

now you have sit a little into your brace what next? (i think this sit part happens naturally just from stepping out, i dont think its something we actively think about)

this video i found from a thread that i believe helps really illustrate a part of the shifting from behind

https://youtu.be/KSKVvPNb4-w?t=161

 

[sidewinder22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-4jXGrIc6c

Footage from the field trying the advice out. I feel like in my practice swings I'm mimicking the desired motion quite well, but for one reason or another I'm completely reverting in actual throws. I'm really struggling to pin down what I'm doing wrong/when everything starts to go wrong in the actual throw, I don't suppose anyone can help me see?

Video is split into practice swings I though went well at the start, and throws with poor technique begin at 0:52.

Cheers!

Rough body motion/balance. On your practice swings you are trying to open up way too much. Your shoulders should still be closed to target when you start to extend the arm/disc. Since your shoulders are open, your extension/whip/power is going to the right of target instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=8m26s

On your throw you are tipping over and jamming into your hip, instead of shifting in dynamic balance to the front leg like a skier in slalom and posting up on the front hip. Note how your rear heel/ankle spins out further away from target instead of moving targetward, shifting the lower body forward underneath the upper body.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s

 

[Jillian]

Thank you for all the feedback guys, the rocking the hips thread was a really good read and I think the baby one step is a good starting point for me.

I think a major issue I clearly have is that my head leads my throw. I'd like to blame years of cricket coaching from childhood, where you get taught to initiate your movements with your head (getting your head over the ball stops you spooning it and getting caught out). I think this is something I'm just going to have to work and work to drill myself out of, but what do you guys feel leads/initiates your movements?

I've read alot about sitting into it and falling into the throw, and can start with that, but inevitably I still end up bringing my head over the top.

 

[sidewinder22]

Perpetual motion drills, keep moving/swinging back and forth so you never get out of position to reverse direction if you wanted to.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487

 

[Jillian]

OK so I've been trying perpetual swing drills and I've been working hard to get a feel for jamming vs pivoting around the hip (which I think I'm getting better at telling apart). A real sticking point for me is my head position and completely losing balance. I really can't shake this, to the extent that I decided to try throwing left handed to see if I still did it.

Turns out I think left handed me is alot better RE head position. There's alot else wrong (rounding, horse stanced, general lack of body control), but it seems like everything stays stacked behind the front leg alot better and rotates through to a standing finish. After this I tried throwing right handed whilst extremely overexaggerating tipping my upper body back. I feel like this resulted in an improvement but I'm still not finishing upright, and I'm trying to swing my head forwards back out of balance.

Here's the link to footage form the session: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llJGMzl5YGA

I'd really appreciate anyone's thoughts and tips based on this. It's really hard to force this muscle memory to break. I think I'd especially appreciate if anyone had a cue for this they could think of. Sidewinder's dinglearm has been the single most effective cue I've tried and it had an instant effect for me, wondering if there's something similar for this?

 

[lostDoughnut]

but what do you guys feel leads/initiates your movements?

RHBH notes:

when i am doing my standstill practice i stand with my feet casually by my side. then i lift my right leg and i fall to the right. this is what starts all my movement.

lets circle back to the hip rocking thread and let me try to explain what helped me.

note the image below. the pictures are kinda backwards from their progression. i put a 1 , 2, and a 3 to show how normally it would go in a throw.

https://imgur.com/JSNQVua

taken from:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3460573&postcount=9

note how the spine starts to tilt in the opposite direction by the time the plant foot comes down. the spine tilts backwards which results in the front hip going higher than the rear hip (i dont think one comes before the other , they occur at the same time). i do not see you doing this in your video.

knowing what i just said. mayb we can watch another video and notice something that maybe we didnt see before

https://vimeo.com/64171158

note the image below goes with the video just posted

https://imgur.com/7lyboR3

note how tilted back his spine is (this might be extremely exaggerated, but as some drills that is to get the point across and helps get the feeling of a movement)

its like a pendulum motion you do with your spine. its kinda like rubbing your head and tapping your belly in that its odd at first and it takes practice to get down. possibly try to get a feel for that pendulum by simply rocking back and forth without throwing.

 

[Jillian]

Thank you very much for the in depth explanation, I'd gained alot about what I was meant to do from the thread but really wasn't getting how to get there. I think the tilted back spine could be a really helpful cue, I'll be trying this in my lunch break tomorrow. It certainly looks how I felt when I was throwing left handed, and is more or less what I tried on the back of it (though in an unrefined, uninformed sense).

 

[Jillian]

Alright, I think we've had a breakthrough. I think I'm finally getting everything posting up behind the front leg. Big thanks lostDoughnut, that summary really connected some things for me.

Some footage from todays field session:
https://youtu.be/Ud-YPBCOIM8

At the start of the session I could tell the set up was better, but I was losing control and falling past my front leg during the throw. After experimenting a bit I found that squeezing my glutes hard during the throw stopped me losing my posture and collapsing. I'm actually really happy with how the throws from 0:30 look, even though they only went 200-240ft and to be completely honest I felt well out of control. I'm assuming I'm going to keep feeling that way until I get more control and my body readjusts its concept of "in balance".

Before I get too excited though, does the dgcoursereview collective see an improvement? Or is it in my head?

 

[sidewinder22]

The ones squeezing the glutes definitely look better, but your backswing sequence looks funky and you plant very flat footed/leg retracted. Should be landing more on stretched out leg/foot like landing from fall or steps toes first. You start your backswing by turning your head and upper body instead of turning from the ground up with the shoulder/head last.

Door Frame should pull your spine/shoulder back into tilt as you stride your butt forward.

 

[Cowabungapizzabomb]

Jillian I think you have doughnut's spine thing backwards. You don't want to tilt your spine away from target in the windup. That Feldberg move happens later, power pocket to hit. You want to lean/shift/tilt hips targetward while winding up, then kinda the opposite as you release. Counterweight type deal.

 

[Jillian]

Hi all, long time no post! This was for two reasons. Firstly, I focussed more on closing out the season and my job. Secondly, I've been really struggling to make any changes to my stupid throw.

One video that really got my attention was the getting stuck over the rubber video from tread athletics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2hU2n_I-0o). It resonated alot with me as to explaining alot of my issues. With my current form my COG never gains any seperation from my back leg and I clearly have issues staying stacked and powerful. Many and various attempts in the field to force it failed.

Two more tread videos really connected with me today, one about hip hinges doing a sock sliding drill (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJFPA7JgSo&t=282s) and another about the rocker drill to properly transfer the weight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs8NhAWrOig). I gave them a go and felt a big difference, and videoed myself and think it's a big step in the right direction. Does the DGCR collective agree?

My indoor reps of the rocker drill: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqxWMaIR7sk

I think a big thing is the wide stance really forces me to get my COG away from my back leg so I don't get stuck, and overall I just look alot more balanced and powerful. If it's a good step I'll probably rep it alot more indoors before moving to throwing anything.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks more athletic compared to before, but you aren't "shifting from behind you". You plant too turned open and hug yourself. The wider your stance, the harder it is to plant turned back further or shift from behind you. Wide stance might feel powerful, but is not as efficient and makes it harder to shift and turn.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118948

IMO you are starting too wide and ending up in the same width stance, so there's not much gained there. Either start narrower and stride wider, or start wide or even wider and stride into narrower stance.

Watch my "standstill" ^ and how I start in a slightly narrower stance and stride into about 3-6" wider stance.

If you are going to start as wide as you are then try to stride into narrower stance so that you build up more torque.

 

[Jillian]

I think the athletic looking bit is the most important to me right now. I see what you mean about the width and power, I don't think I'd throw a disc very far like that. The wide stance is really helping me get a handle on loading the back leg and staying stacked, but as I get more control I'll try and start narrowing it up and improving that shift from behind!

 

[Jillian]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSnk_gkBpjQ

Some first throws trying the new more athletic motion. I think it's mostly working, though with the disc in my hand it's not quite as nice as some of my dry runs. I feel like I'm still extending the back leg rather than adducting it away which isn't helping, and there's some clear timing issues, but overall this feels like the most meaningful change I've made to my throw in a long time. A much better place to build from.

 

[sidewinder22]

Ride the Bull:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s