"best" and "greatest" are very different. Climo is the greatest. Paul is the best.
Woj, I'll wait until you give me your definition. If you have, then I've missed it. My point therein is that we can all "say" what we think, but to validate it, argue for or against it, agree with it or disagree with it, we have to know what you mean. I think I gave mine, so let's hear yours.
We can say with accuracy what he did do in his circumstances. In discussing the best - circumstances always play a role. Who would have been the greatest player in disc golf in the 1990s if the sport was big enough to absorb thousands more athletes from various backgrounds? Using your same what-if level questions, we can extrapolate from today's game that Climo would not have dominated the 1990s, just like you're extrapolating that Climo could have been better than Paul in the 2010s.
Woj, I may have not stated it clearly, because I see you were misinterpreting what I said about Ken's rating (not having one) in the prime of his career. I wasn't saying or extrapolating that I could "move Champ into the 2010s and he'd have dominated" -- then or now. The point I was simply making was to the people saying Ken's rating never got to Paul's is that, well, that is true for Kenny ages 30 and up. But he won 8 Worlds Championships before there were ratings, before ratings were invented. We
literally do not know what his rating was or could have been when he was 21-29 years old. No speculation from me at all, though, about what he'd do or have done in the 2010s or 2020s. I am not doing that. I don't do that.
And no, (for the part in red) I am a proponent, as I have said consistently in this argument here and about every sport, that you CANNOT objectively compare across eras. There are too many variables -- in every sport. All you can do is develop your own definition of "greatness" or "best" or "most talented" or whatever you want to call it, and stand behind what you individually value. Again, I go back to Babe Ruth in baseball. I have no doubt that nearly every 25th player on every MLB roster today is "a better athlete" than Babe was in his prime. But no one
dominated his own era the way the Babe did. To me that's what makes the greatest. (Trout's career isn't over yet; just throwing that in.)
Paul retires or gets hurt today he has no chance to be considered the GOAT. Best - sure. Not that he will be in a few generations. But right now he is.
One thing's for sure... he stopped dominating the big events at nearly the same level almost as soon as he hit the age of 30. The field got right up on his ass at about that time. If Paul can stay a full step ahead of the field through his 30s - he clearly supersedes Climo as the GOAT as well as the fully realized best.
I do agree with the first sentence. So many calling him the GOAT right now are adding in "what (in their mind) they think Paul's gonna do." Very few state unequivocally, if the earth was raptured tomorrow, or Paul get a job with ESPN paying 10 times as much and doesn't disc golf anymore, that then Paul was/is the GOAT.
About that last paragraph, well, again, you can "say" that abut Kenny. And cause you closer in age and have seen more dg than a lot of these posters, I do want to hear your reasoning. But you're gonna have to define "stopped dominating big events if want to claim it. Because as I recall, Champ won three Worlds and all five of his USDGC's after the age of 30. So just need to understand what you meant by that. I can accept, "not dominating like he had before" because facts support that. But getting those EIGHT big W's at big events from ages 30-38 is pretty darned amazing, in my mind. There's a lot of disc golfers today that can only hope to win 8 of the next 18 Worlds & USDGC's they play in. And it would be career-making even for the guys and ladies in their 20s.
Honestly, a metric like that would be cool. But I still believe the only way is to have them both live out around the same age, and compete under the same circumstances (ie Kenny got to only do disc golf or Paul had to work to live, and other things to consider). Unless we develop a time machine, I still believe greatest comes in waves.
