Michigan New Course Updates

[BogeyNoMore]

!@#$%^&* Completely inept at this. Hey Bogey.

Thanks Innova63.

Got you covered, man! :hfive:

Here's the current layout, so you can see what's changing:

I dont think this does squat to deal with the holes that get flooded.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I played Willow when it was brand new, a long time ago. The thing I loved the most was the airplane spotting opportunities! Lots of big birds coming in on final for DTW. I remember a huge DC-10 right above me there. Some may not enjoy that but I love me some cool aviation stuff while also doing my favorite thing ever.

 

[ejvogie]

What's with the blue overlays? Are those the areas the park already knows that get swampy, or is that emphasis yours?

 

[ru4por]

What's with the blue overlays? Are those the areas the park already knows that get swampy, or is that emphasis yours?

Nope, not mine. I am not positive, but they are obviously blue, water indication being a good guess. They also seem to correlate with what I remember as problem flooding areas. It is an educated guess, but I see them as swampy or flood potential areas. :thmbup:

 

[ChrisWoj]

How about this?

Looks like you're sharing direct links to protected files. Can you download the file to your Google Drive? If this is from an eMail - the file should have a button on it in your eMail to "Add to Drive." Once you click that button open up the website http://drive.google.com/ - it should be saved on the first page you encounter.

Right click on the file, and then click "Share" which brings up a menu. Click on "Restricted" and change it to "Anyone with link" once you do this it will change the menu to add a Copy Link option. Click that to copy it to your clipboard and share that link here.

edit: oops didn't see another page of posts, didn't realize it got taken care of.

 

[ru4por]

Looks like you're sharing direct links to protected files. Can you download the file to your Google Drive? If this is from an eMail - the file should have a button on it in your eMail to "Add to Drive." Once you click that button open up the website http://drive.google.com/ - it should be saved on the first page you encounter.

Right click on the file, and then click "Share" which brings up a menu. Click on "Restricted" and change it to "Anyone with link" once you do this it will change the menu to add a Copy Link option. Click that to copy it to your clipboard and share that link here.

edit: oops didn't see another page of posts, didn't realize it got taken care of.

Thank you, anyway. i did add it to google drive, then proceeded to fail to make it viewable to "anyone with link". Inept. But, I hope that I learned this today!!

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Pretty sure blue areas are known water collection spots.

New layout basically uses the same parcel of land, so don't expect drainage to change unless they take specific action(s) to address it.

My initial reaction was, "Many holes just seem to get renumbered, and I'm not really sure what the objective for the redesign/reduction is." But if you step back and look at it objectively...

Currently: Willow is 23 holes worth of flat, tight, tunnelly fairways, reasonably balanced as far as Left/Right/ Straight goes+ plus one grip'n'rip hole.

Most holes are pretty short, and a fair to middling intermediate player will likely throw mids and putters off most tees, with an occasional driver. Definitely more fun for players who prefer finesse golf. It gets rather repetitive and quite a few holes feel very similar to other holes on the course. So it lacks variety in that sense.

Not a fan of change simply for the sake of change, but... I'm not gonna trash the idea before I see what they do.

IMHO, it's not as good as any of the of the other Metro or County Park courses (except possibly for The Foz), so I don't see this as "OMG! I love that course! I hope they don't **** it up!"

I'm not necessarily happy about losing holes but...

As repetitive as many of the current holes feel, going from 24 to 18 holes doesn't have to hurt variety, and could make it feel less repetitive (if the right holes get eliminated).

And if they widen/clear a few (but not all ) of the fairways, and maybe stretch out a few holes...

I definitely see the potential for the redesign to be a more balanced 18 hole course than the current 24 hole layout, and if done properly, it wouldn't feel repetitive.


...even if it still floods every spring.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I'm not necessarily happy about losing holes but...

As repetitive as many of the current holes feel, going from 24 to 18 holes doesn't have to hurt variety, and could make it feel less repetitive (if the right holes get eliminated).

And if they widen/clear a few (but not all ) of the fairways, and maybe stretch out a few holes...

I definitely see the potential for the redesign to be a more balanced 18 hole course than the current 24 hole layout, and if done properly, it wouldn't feel repetitive.


...even if it still floods every spring.

This is where I am. Willow is one of my favorite places to practice when I'm playing a lot of golf - when I lived at my parents' house near I75 at the border it was a quick shot up the highway for some great tunnel practice that nothing in Toledo gives me (outside of a few Vienna holes). I really enjoyed it a lot, always, even when flooded. But at the same time - I don't see any problems just from the layout posted. A few holes I'm sad to see go/change, but c'est la vie.

Things I don't like...
Removal/changing of what is now labeled 15 (old 9) - why swap the direction of the approach to the green? Its a killer FH par-3 hole from the long tees right now.

Combining old holes 21-22 to get new hole 5 - Hole 21 was a really fun and rare angle for a hyzer - the super-deep hyzer that needs to stand MOST of the way up and then ride for a long ways sideways to get to the pin.

Combining holes 12-13 into new 16 feels like lost-disc-hell off that long tee. Spotters as a must-have but even then I feel like players are going to be ripping sky anhyzers out there that just can't be spotted when they're yanked. Its really open sky over that long tee with a lot of tight wooded areas below the flight path.

Things I do like...
Combining old holes 5-6 into new 12 is something people have been doing for a long time, and I think it is a fun and difficult par 4 even with some widening of the fairway that I assume might occur.

New hole 2 replacing old 17 is a good change IMO. The old hole was a bit of a poke and hope. I felt as comfortable with my chances of getting to 45 and better about my chances of putting it by the pin with a FH roller, despite all the roots on the ground, than with an air shot.


Overall I think this has a ton of potential to be something I like a lot more than the current layout. But right now most of the changes you can see on the map are really "wait and see" type changes. I can't quite tell if I'll like the shifting of the tee/pin for old 15 (new 18). It looks like a neat change, but just hard to say. Some goes for extending the green on old 14 (new 17), new extending of old 24 (new 7), the brand new hole 1, etc.

Excited to at least see what they come up with.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I heard today that the MetroParks is redesigning the Willow MetroPark course. Removing 6 holes, to make it 18. Opening up most of the holes, by cutting down trees. I am not sure who is the driving force behind the decisions or helping with the redesign. I am angry about it. Willow is a tough, wooded track. A nice compliment to the area, especially in light of the massive loss of Ash trees in the last decade or so. I will post more info, as I find out.

A friend of mine who plays Willow all the time had a question - did you happen to hear through the grapevine whether the baskets will be replaced?

 

[ChrisWoj]

Ooo friend just brought up something I hadn't noticed.... is that a 6-hole putter course north of the paved lot/new hole 1?

 

[ru4por]

A friend of mine who plays Willow all the time had a question - did you happen to hear through the grapevine whether the baskets will be replaced?

I did not hear. BUT, given they are the only MetroPark that has not received new baskets and the redesign, I am assuming we will see new buckets. [fingers crossed]

Ooo friend just brought up something I hadn't noticed.... is that a 6-hole putter course north of the paved lot/new hole 1?

I read the map to be numbered picnic areas. Again, assuming.

I will try to find out. I am still on the hunt for whom is helping the park.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Ooo friend just brought up something I hadn't noticed.... is that a 6-hole putter course north of the paved lot/new hole 1?

Sure looks that way. Good catch by your friend. I sure as hell missed it.

Dunno if they're planning buy new baskets, but assuming they're not, it would explain what's happening with the baskets lost in going from 24 to 18.

It's a totally different park system, but I wonder if they heard good feedback about the Putting Labyrinth at Rolling Hills?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I read the map to be numbered picnic areas. Again, assuming.

I will try to find out. I am still on the hunt for whom is helping the park.

You could be onto something there, and you're spot on about the baskets.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Not to change the subject, but...

80 miles northeast of Willow (out in Donny V's neck of the woods, and it looks like he had a hand in it)...

Ru4 and I just played a really nice 18 holes at Will Bendik Memorial DGC (in Columbus County Park).

Really nice facility with long and short tees (a few holes have just one tee), featuring balanced mix of open and wooded, tons of mature trees, tasty bit of elevation and a few holes with monster distance from the gold tees (hell, a few of the blues are plenty long).

Previously listed here a niner installed in 2021, the back 9 to make it a full 18 was completed in 2022. I updated the listing as best I could.

Really a nice course that's well worth a day trip. Designers were shooting for Championship caliber course. They hit their mark.

Most of the tees are rubber, but very secure, with a few concrete. Back 9 still needs tee signs, but this place is pretty much tournament ready.

 

[ru4por]

Thought this sidebar from the leagues thread was better suited for possible discussion here?

tomjulio:

Side note, the club in discussion just recently got booted from Flip City by Bill (for multiple reasons). They are not allowed to host States there anymore, nor tourneys, nor leagues. Its just an overall sad time here locally. I pray for the new generation to make it better.

ru4por:

I had not heard about this. Though, I don't really do facebook or enough social media to be in the know. This puts a pretty big question mark on States, IMO. Moving the tournament around the state from year to year looks like a more viable discussion. Hmmmmmm.....

I had heard that this idea had continued to meet resistance from Discraft. I think there are other area that have the proximity and quality of courses to host the AM version of States. Seems that becomes magnified by the loss of Flip.

Edit: Maybe this discussion would be better served in the Michigan Course thread.

tomjulio:

This news hasn't hit the main Michigan disc golf community yet on social media, and I know the club in question, more so the TD of States, is already trying to redirect the blame.

There are a lot of nuances happening in regards to all you mention, and you're right, this would be a worthwhile discussion over at the Michigan thread.

 

[Skamanda]

Speaking of Michigan social media groups - there was a thread in the SE Michigan disc golf Facebook group about the willow redesign. I don't remember for sure, but the person working with the park may have been mentioned, or been participating.

I played there a couple weeks ago, and saw the flags and ribbons they had up for clearing trees, as well as stakes for new tees or baskets.

Overall it looks like it's going to ratchet the difficulty down a notch, but not by a ton. Still lame in my opinion, since that's the only real challenging course in the area, but it looks like it'll probably still be harder by a little bit than the Kensington courses - even if it does open it up to play a bit more like them...

 

[ChrisWoj]

Speaking of Michigan social media groups - there was a thread in the SE Michigan disc golf Facebook group about the willow redesign. I don't remember for sure, but the person working with the park may have been mentioned, or been participating.

I played there a couple weeks ago, and saw the flags and ribbons they had up for clearing trees, as well as stakes for new tees or baskets.

Overall it looks like it's going to ratchet the difficulty down a notch, but not by a ton. Still lame in my opinion, since that's the only real challenging course in the area, but it looks like it'll probably still be harder by a little bit than the Kensington courses - even if it does open it up to play a bit more like them...

Ehhhhh....... I would say, at the very least, Willow from the long tees is already easier than Kensington Green from the long tees. If Willow's changes made it easier, it'd still IMO be easier than Kensington Green from the longs.

I suppose I could see how if you're a little bit off with your release point consistency you can easily score much worse at Willow than you would at Kensington Green. But if your release point is on it feels much easier to score hot at Willow than at Kensington Green.

 

[Skamanda]

Ehhhhh....... I would say, at the very least, Willow from the long tees is already easier than Kensington Green from the long tees. If Willow's changes made it easier, it'd still IMO be easier than Kensington Green from the longs.

I suppose I could see how if you're a little bit off with your release point consistency you can easily score much worse at Willow than you would at Kensington Green. But if your release point is on it feels much easier to score hot at Willow than at Kensington Green.

I've never played green from the longs, so I can't comment on that specifically, but the fairways at Kensington feel wider. All three courses force you to shape some pretty good lines, but Willow feels more punishing not just of bad releases, but of missed lines...

 

[ChrisWoj]

I've never played green from the longs, so I can't comment on that specifically, but the fairways at Kensington feel wider. All three courses force you to shape some pretty good lines, but Willow feels more punishing not just of bad releases, but of missed lines...

I would absolutely agree that the fairways are wider, but the holes are also longer which makes up for it, in addition to the presence of elevation change and the fact that the greens have slope. At Willow you're just executing sub-300 all day which means if you miss your line you're not really in that much trouble as long as the release point was on line and you can get through the first 150 feet of tunnel, and then you're putting on a dead-flat green. I also don't know if I think it plays as tight as it is - if you're scattershot you'll occasionally get deep into the woods at Willow, and it IS very dense - but the density serves to keep you out on the edge quite often. Its hard to penetrate into the woods unless you're ripping it right at them or fading really hard straight into them.

I guess its all relative - but I definitely feel way more confident in my ability to nail a release point versus my ability to get the line down the fairway right.

(I'm just gonna ignore the fact that I shot on average 60+ points below my rating the last time I played a tournament at Willow in 2020...)

 

[1-UP]

The Battle Creek Kiwanis have approved the installation of an 18 hole course at their outdoor education center. It will be just south of 94 near exit 97, 10 minutes or so east of Coldbrook.

It's a beautiful piece of property that is rife with mature woods, Minges Creek, moderate elevation changes, and a large meadow. The goal is to have a course similar in nature and difficulty to Cold Brook, with some room to stretch out a bit with long and short tees. Oshtemo would be a wonderful target example.

Construction will begin in spring on the front 9 with the intent on it being playable Summer '23. Back 9 tentatively scheduled for summer of '24, but if fundraising continues to go as well as it has we may be able to get the whole thing installed next year.

Posted earlier in the year about it, but the new (rebuilt) back 9 at Kimball Pines is doing great! It's been playable since early summer but improvements have continued through the year, primarily regarding brush removal and fairway shaping. The construction of the new entrance appears to be complete (it's accessible at any rate), new parking, paved paths to the new pavilion - it's a heck of a fun course! Still need to put in signs, fix a pad, and work on paving alternates, but it's coming along.