Movement in top 10

[Dave242]

Flyboy is a 5 with or without, brief talk with mashnut about this a long time ago and he still, for the time being, has it placed as his #1, regardless of the other fantastic things offered.

That's cool with me that anyone feels this way.....but why is Mashnut the "gold standard"? There are plenty of people who have been exploring courses and playing at a higher level than him for longer than he has been playing.

BTW, Cam Todd rates Fly Boy right near the top of courses he has played.

 

[bjreagh]

My point...is that there's a major flaw in people blindly thinking they know what makes a top 10 course, myself included. The idea being that 10 is such an arbitrary number. Recob25 is saying its in his top 10, which is out of 26 played courses (and possibly counting). That means 38% of his played courses would be in his top 10. My top ten would be 7% of the courses I've played, and so on. Other people have played 5 courses, yet that's enough for them to know when they've seen one of the world's 10 best courses.

As we've seen all too often, you get people who have played a limited number of courses, and the best they have played, regardless of how good that course really is, almost automatically gets a 5. The idea being, if it's the best I've played to date, it's got to be a five, therefore making it one of the best anywhere.

Most excellent points. If we picked our personal top 5 or top 3 or top 1 (based on ratios of # played to # that exists), they would most likely ALL be represented in the overall top 10 of every course out there.

I actually spend a lot of time looking at the top 50. Man, what a great group of courses on that list and I am lucky to have played alot of them!

 

[Connor Jones]

That's cool with me that anyone feels this way.....but why is Mashnut the "gold standard"? There are plenty of people who have been exploring courses and playing at a higher level than him for longer than he has been playing.

BTW, Cam Todd rates Fly Boy right near the top of courses he has played.

He's played a bunch of courses, hes well known on the forum so he is an easy reference point. I have never had a conversation with Cam Todd so I didn't know that.

Sticking by what I said, he is a good point of reference.

 

[tbird888]

I will definitely agree with you on this. I think the golf is what should matter when you rate a course. I think ammenities should be a very small part of the rating on courses. It's the golf that should matter.

Just for S&G what course did the baskets from Sugaree get sent to?

I believe you already know the answer to that question.

In case you're serious though...I'm not sure if this happened or not.

The plan is to ship all our baskets to Miranda, Ca to be used on the Birds of Paradise course...we like what they are doing.

 

[Dave242]

My point, and I'm not picking on him, or anyone in particular, is that there's a major flaw in people blindly thinking they know what makes a top 10 course, myself included. The idea being that 10 is such an arbitrary number. Recob25 is saying its in his top 10, which is out of 26 played courses (and possibly counting). That means 38% of his played courses would be in his top 10. My top ten would be 7% of the courses I've played, and so on. Other people have played 5 courses, yet that's enough for them to know when they've seen one of the world's 10 best courses.

As we've seen all too often, you get people who have played a limited number of courses, and the best they have played, regardless of how good that course really is, almost automatically gets a 5. The idea being, if it's the best I've played to date, it's got to be a five, therefore making it one of the best anywhere.

I wonder how much different these lists would look if we could vote on both overall quality and simply our favorites.

Most excellent points. If we picked our personal top 5 or top 3 or top 1 (based on ratios of # played to # that exists), they would most likely ALL be represented in the overall top 10 of every course out there.

I actually spend a lot of time looking at the top 50. Man, what a great group of courses on that list and I am lucky to have played alot of them!

I do not think HBC makes excellent points at all. I think he is missing a huge aspect of what DGCR is all about.

No individual can or does set the "gold standard" of what is "good" or "bad".....it is a group consensus that makes this site tick (and defines what the DGCR top courses are). I just called ConnorJones out on this.

If someone thinks a course is a 5.0 on their scale and in their experience.....well then it is indeed a 5.0 to them. To me at least, discussing the merits of why I (and others) rate the way I (and they) do is a big part of the fun of this online community.

Lots of overlapping played lists by lots of overlapping tastes in courses is what defines courses' ratings. If everybody thinks Fly Boy is 5.0, and I don't.....Fly Boy still remains the top course. If I have no rationale other than thinking Kelly's hair is to coiffed, I am an idiot. If I have good reasons to think what I think, I might still be an idiot.....but at least my reasons are golf related.

I have said it many times, and I will say it again. I think the group consensus is incredible and incredibly useful. I have only very very rarely been disappointed by a course rated 3.5 or higher or impressed by a course rated 2.5 or lower. My ratings do not match up well/perfectly with the DGCR average.....but I have high regard for the DGCR average as well as for each thoughtful rating that went into that average.

 

[humchris85]

I believe you already know the answer to that question.

In case you're serious though...I'm not sure if this happened or not.

I was serious. This is awesome if it is actualy happaning. What kind of baskets are they?

 

[bjreagh]

I also think a telling stat would be to see ratings based on geography. Sorting/comparing ratings from in-state reviewers vs out-of-state reviewers. Or possibly based on a radius of reviewers locations to account for people living near borders of other states or those in New England- rating of those < 100 miles from the course vs >100 miles, or whatever mileage seems appropriate.

I would love to compare an "out-of-towner" ratings top 10 (or 25) to the current list just for fun.

I did some prelim research of ratios of #courses states have compared to the number of courses rated 4.0 and higher. I had a theory in mind regarding "homer ratings" that states with few high level courses yielded higher ratings to their top 1-3 courses because of how they compared. The stats supported this, but also led to some opposing conclusions at the same time- like some states with a high % of highly rated courses could be that way due to local inflation. So who really knows. The stats were interesting, but it is not quite the right set of data I was looking for. The above suggestion would be a better measure.

Not a suggestion to change the top 10 formula, just an additional way to sort reviews and ranks. (if this is already possible, somebody tell me how to do it.)

 

[tbird888]

I was serious. This is awesome if it is actualy happaning. What kind of baskets are they?

They're homemade baskets that aren't easy to describe. Look at the second picture (and then take a look at the others to see how awesome the course was ).

 

[humchris85]

They're homemade baskets that aren't easy to describe. Look at the second picture (and then take a look at the others to see how awesome the course was ).

Well, I'm sad to hear that the course is gone now. It was in my wishlist for a while, but I just hadn't had a chance to make it back to the east coast in time. Though I am excited to hear that I might get the chance to play on the baskets from there.

 

[Connor Jones]

FWIW, the "group consensus" decided flyboy was a 4.90+ course.

I was simply citing one well known, well traveled members opinion in relation to the topic at hand about golf being more important than amenities.

Thanks though.

 

[Dave242]

I have said it many times, and I will say it again. I think the group consensus is incredible and incredibly useful. I have only very very rarely been disappointed by a course rated 3.5 or higher or impressed by a course rated 2.5 or lower. My ratings do not match up well/perfectly with the DGCR average.....but I have high regard for the DGCR average as well as for each thoughtful rating that went into that average.

BTW, I am not implying that I am this respectful guy of all mankind and everyone else is self-absorbed. Quite the opposite.

When I jumped in on this site I was quite pleased with my ratings list (self absorbed maybe) and entered my list with the hope it would be useful to someone (I and have heard it has been for a few people). I did it via means of a cookie cutter template. That went over with DGCR readers like a turd in a beer.

I never imagined DGCR would blossom into something as awesome as it has. I was wrong about that and in retrospect also wrong about how I entered my initial reviews. I have learned to respect the consensus opinion of DGCR and also to appreciate that many people have very different motivations than me for why the go out and play.

 

[bjreagh]

I do not think HBC makes excellent points at all. I think he is missing a huge aspect of what DGCR is all about.

First, I agree with you on what DGCR is all about. I am just agreeing with his point that if a person who has only played 10 courses sits down and makes their top 10 list, then it is more than likely not going to match the DGCR top 10 list- it will just be the courses they have played. Forget the order for a moment and just match the top 10. Does anybody on here have the same courses in their top 10 as the DCCR community top 10 (in any order)? Doubt it, most have not played them all. My top 10 does not match the current top 10 because I have not played all those courses- so of course my personal list will differ. After my next 100 courses I may find 10 that I think are better than Granite Ridge and there it goes out of my top 10 even though I passionately claim it to be a top 10 course right now. Our opinions can only be based on what we have actually played.

Also agree with him on why all the fuss about the top 10? No one makes a big deal when a course moves from the top 25? or top 100? All still great courses though. There are just so many courses that 10 is a very small percent. Losing in the Final Four in NCAA basketball is statistically a better accomplishment than winning the Superbowl, but what is generally regarded as superior? It is all David Letterman's fault

 

[Dave242]

Also agree with him on why all the fuss about the top 10?

I think we are all 3 on the same page on this. It is similar to why the sports talk shows always whip out the topic of "who are the top 10 QBs of all time" when there is nothing else to talk about. It doesn't really matter, but everyone has a whole mix of reasons, emotions, and allegiances to defend vehemently when they make their argument for inclusion/exclusion on their list.

Its all just a fun past time for us DG course fanatics......and I hope the course owners/builders understand that as they are the ones who matter most when it comes to the creation of courses.

 

[bjreagh]

I think we are all 3 on the same page on this. It is similar to why the sports talk shows always whip out the topic of "who are the top 10 QBs of all time" when there is nothing else to talk about. It doesn't really matter, but everyone has a whole mix of reasons, emotions, and allegiances to defend vehemently when they make their argument for inclusion/exclusion on their list.

Its all just a fun past time for us DG course fanatics......and I hope the course owners/builders understand that as they are the ones who matter most when it comes to the creation of courses.

Well said. :thmbup:

 

[New013]

Flyboy isn't the best pure course I've played so far, Hawk Hollow has that distinction. I'd still put Flyboy ahead of Hawk Hollow in my personal top ten and it's not just due to the experience. The equipment and atmosphere of Flyboy is much better.

 

[Connor Jones]

Keep in mind, when you play Flyboy, that means I am nearby. Instant improvement in rating.

 

[New013]

Connor has a point there, he got bit by a dog for us.

 

[Jukeshoe]

Khanair Jonze tears are valuable on the black market, if you procured any from him. :|

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

Flyboy is a 5 with or without, brief talk with mashnut about this a long time ago and he still, for the time being, has it placed as his #1, regardless of the other fantastic things offered.

Flyboy without the BnB and without the Planes is not a five. There are about 5 Great holes. A lot of really good holes and some average holes. But with 27 holes that's gonna happen.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

No individual can or does set the "gold standard" of what is "good" or "bad".....it is a group consensus that makes this site tick (and defines what the DGCR top courses are).

Agree mostly on this point. The loudest voice, or person with the most free time to spend posting on here, doesn't make the biggest authority on the best courses. On the flip side, the masses can sometimes be wrong on a course. This is the whole idea of the locals over-inflating their hometown course's rating. My local example of this would be Robert L. Smith. It's a very good course, but it's not the best, or second best course in the Charlotte area. It got a ton of 4.5 & 5 ratings in a hurry, and it's overall rating shot up.

If someone thinks a course is a 5.0 on their scale and in their experience.....well then it is indeed a 5.0 to them. To me at least, discussing the merits of why I (and others) rate the way I (and they) do is a big part of the fun of this online community.

Disagree on the first part. Completely agree on the second. The first part of the argument goes back to the whole objective versus subjective rating. People rate up, or rate down, courses for the most inane reasons. We sadly haven't seen a Redneck Machismo review in a long time. I miss those lowball reviews for courses that dare have trees on them.

I think the group consensus is incredible and incredibly useful. I have only very very rarely been disappointed by a course rated 3.5 or higher or impressed by a course rated 2.5 or lower. My ratings do not match up well/perfectly with the DGCR average.....but I have high regard for the DGCR average as well as for each thoughtful rating that went into that average.

I completely agree with you on this point. Of the disc golf trips I've taken, and different courses I've played, there are only two 3.5+ rated courses where I was really disappointed: Groves Park in Oak Ridge, TN. and Valley Spring in Durham, NC. Some of that may be personal preference. Some of that may be realizing there's nothing good that exists in Durham. Some of that might be locals liking the courses too much. Whatever the reasons, 2 courses out of the dozens I've played in different cities & states means for the most part, people seem to have a pretty good sense of above average, average and below average courses. More often, I've played courses I thought were underrated, wishing a certain course were closer to where I lived. My classic examples of this are Morningside Park in Knoxville, TN and Stumpy Creek in Mooresville, NC. Neither of those get the attention I feel they deserve. This site is at its best when we can begin splitting hairs over whether a course is a 5, a 4.5 or a 4-rated level course.