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167 Relay, 174 Signal when released.. :/thread
IMHO, there is no such thing as an MVP "beginner" disc. You have to throw all their discs with good "snap" to make them work properly. If you don't have reasonable form down, you may be disappointed in any MVP disc that you try.
Neutron Proxy. Neutral and scary long.
While SD might often be an obnoxious PITA a lot, he's not wrong. For someone who's new and not quite up to snuff with their form (which was me a while back), these discs can be squirrelly. I remember making the same observation about the Envy when it was released. Not enough snap, and it was an unreliable turd. Get it right though...wow! I made that point frequently, and I shied away from MVP for that reason. Guess all of you have form clean enough to eat off of...?
In some regards this makes these discs great for training new players. Much like the Comet's form tidying brilliance though, this makes it incredibly frustrating on the course, especially when one-piece molds don't suffer from the same "issue".
Because the Envy is not a beginner friendly disc does not mean they don't make any. Beginners probably shouldn't start with a Destroyer either but the most recommended disc I see for beginners is the Leopard. Shockingly, Innova makes styles for beginners and advanced ... as does MVP.
I re-iterate that MVP does not make "beginner" discs, and unless a beginner already has good power, form and snap, MVP discs are likely not be a good answer. Innova makes starter packs, as does Trilogy (or at least Dynamic Discs)... I don't see any MVP starter packs, and there might just be a good reason for that. And despite the personal attacks on me elsewhere in this thread, I'm just trying to help the OP not make a bad decision and waste his/her money. Oh well, I said my advice.. let the OP find out for himself/herself...
Proxy theory or relay. Or all three.