I concur with this idea. Sounds like the whole west meets east thing isn't quite settling in yet. Save yourself the headache and play organized tournaments where the rules are respected.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Need help from Tournament players
- Thread starter AndyJB
- Start date
I concur with this idea. Sounds like the whole west meets east thing isn't quite settling in yet. Save yourself the headache and play organized tournaments where the rules are respected.
Harrishabitat
PDGA Numbers 60630 AND 34207
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 678
Can you please post his info so all of us that think he is the worlds biggest a-hole we can let him know ourselves
notroman
* Ace Member *
Seems like half the people here are the a-holes, not the TD of the tournament.
BionicRib
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2011
- Messages
- 2,617
After viewing last years results from this tourney. http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/15459 I can see how arguments from both sides OP/"random email guy" have validity. Different divisions played different tees or different courses so I'm not sure how these ratings were derived and if their were enough propagators to derive them properly. Figuring out the ratings of all the non pdga members rounds would be like doing a sudoku puzzle (and yes i googled sudoku origins to see if i made a bad pun) and I'm not gonna go there.
Seems like properly placing people in "proper" divisions would be a TD nightmare given the scoring seperation in this one.
To the OP.....I would play AM 1....I think you'll be fine.
Seems like properly placing people in "proper" divisions would be a TD nightmare given the scoring seperation in this one.
To the OP.....I would play AM 1....I think you'll be fine.
I would play AM1, but as I stated, it's a multi-day tournament and I cannot make both days due to travel restrictions in my area of Korea. Which is one of the many, many reasons I am skipping this "tournament".
And, judging from several emails, they would not stand for me playing anything but MPO.
And, judging from several emails, they would not stand for me playing anything but MPO.
Nah, I won't do that. But I'll let TDs know if I ever see this individual playing an American tournament. I figure they can have Korea.
There is actually another organization here, the KFDF, that holds their own events "Korea-style." The original split was to be KPDGA would follow strict PDGA rules, whereas KFDF would do their own thing, unencumbered by Western ideals. However, it appears to have gone backwards. KFDF tourneys are pretty close to PDGA rules, where KPDGA is the one doing their own things.
What political intrigue! haha
turbosteve
Eagle Member
It seems to me that the KFDF needs to join the WFDF and sanction their disc golf events with the PDGA. The KPDGA is such a joke.
BionicRib
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2011
- Messages
- 2,617
I honestly think you would be fine in Open. You may not win, but I think you'd have a better time. Without an updated list of who and how many are in the tournament its kind of hard to tell you exactly what division to play, but last years tournament results IMO show that it is not uncommon to play "well" above your rating in that area of the country.
Just go buy a t-shirt and slap 860 on the front and back (real big) and play open. The way those results panned out last year I think you have a legitimate chance to cash. But I bet you don't end up in last place (provided you put forth an honest effort)
Just go buy a t-shirt and slap 860 on the front and back (real big) and play open. The way those results panned out last year I think you have a legitimate chance to cash. But I bet you don't end up in last place (provided you put forth an honest effort)
Again, I cannot play both days. I am restricted to one day of travel, due to the area I'm in. And I would never play Open anyway. Korea doesn't have such a thing as accepting prizes instead of cash (hench why so many open players are not PDGA members) because they do not have prizes. Also, in any OPen division they do not payout to PDGA standards. They pay the top three foreigners, then pay the top three Koreans the same amount, if not more.
Regardless, I can't play both days so it's a moot point. I wouldn't give any of my money to this screwed up organization anyway.
Regardless, I can't play both days so it's a moot point. I wouldn't give any of my money to this screwed up organization anyway.
Also, judging by the scores I got the last time I played that course, and going by last years results, I would be in 5th or 6th place in MA2.
Basically, it's a huge mess. Luckily, I made the wise decision to avoid the whole darn thing. My first tourney of the year will be the 303 Open in Denver. Where I will be playing in MA2, where I belong.
Basically, it's a huge mess. Luckily, I made the wise decision to avoid the whole darn thing. My first tourney of the year will be the 303 Open in Denver. Where I will be playing in MA2, where I belong.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
That's kind of funny, because with an 860 rating you really belong in MA3.
Well I wouldnt want to be a sandbagger :\
Last edited:
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
It's a regional thing. An 860 player in MA3 is not a bagger. Around here, you'd be lucky to finish in the prizes in MA3. It's ironic if you think an 860 player is a bagger in MA3 after complaining that those in Korea think you are a bagger in MA1/MA2.
I was looking to head out for spring break to another area of the country and noticed a C tier where I was looking. The ratings for each division show how few in that area play in their division.
I broke down MA1 and MA2 into who was registered
MA1
0 players that are required to play MA1
9 players that could play MA2
4 players that could play MA3
2 Non-rated
MA2
4 players that are required to play MA2 (with 3 of them <=901)
7 players that could play MA3
2 that could play MA4
7 Non-Rated
I was looking to head out for spring break to another area of the country and noticed a C tier where I was looking. The ratings for each division show how few in that area play in their division.
I broke down MA1 and MA2 into who was registered
MA1
0 players that are required to play MA1
9 players that could play MA2
4 players that could play MA3
2 Non-rated
MA2
4 players that are required to play MA2 (with 3 of them <=901)
7 players that could play MA3
2 that could play MA4
7 Non-Rated
I was being sarcastic, BTW
I honestly dont mind playing up when the situation calls for it, but when I compare past statistics and my level of play, along with someone trying to strongarm me just so they can take my money, Im going to dig in my heela and stand my ground. I dont like being singled out, either. I was far from the only foreign player who signed up for that division, but I WAS the only one with a PDGA number, and a recorded and viewable series of stats regarding my level of play. If Im already playing up a division to accomodate the event, then I dont see what the big deal is.
The worst part is that I have to deal with these jabronis when I play a non-sanctioned doubles tourney later this month. One of them even messaged me asking to buy some discs like we are old pals and they didnt just ruin what should have been a memorable tournament for me.
Ive never had to deal with crap like this in the States. I just dont get what point they are trying to make, or how their behaviors and conduct serves to further the sport. Its certainly not for love of the game.
The worst part is that I have to deal with these jabronis when I play a non-sanctioned doubles tourney later this month. One of them even messaged me asking to buy some discs like we are old pals and they didnt just ruin what should have been a memorable tournament for me.
Ive never had to deal with crap like this in the States. I just dont get what point they are trying to make, or how their behaviors and conduct serves to further the sport. Its certainly not for love of the game.
It is absolutely a regional thing. I hope you can get a chance to come play a So Cal Series event in a division for which you are rated.
In the So Cal Series, we have lots of new and up-and-coming players. However, not many players choose to play up in divisions. (MA4 is rarely offered anymore at events.)
Here is a recent AM only event with 87 players where only 7 players voluntarily moved up to a division above their rating. (Three MA4 rated players had to play in MA3).
http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/16979
All but four of the unrated players and PDGA non-members played Recreational....and none of those non-members took a top spot away from a rated player*. (*One non-member won Advanced GM). There were zero shouts of sandbagging to the MA2 and MA3 winners. Both these new players got their first PDGA wins! It appears the MA2 winner will automatically get bumped to the next division when PDGA ratings are updated.
It is too bad all Am divisions are not available everywhere. One reason it may work here ("it" being players registering for divisions for which they are rated) is because of the So Cal Series. The So Cal Series offers awards at the end of the year to the top finishers in ALL divisions (that had enough participants). This provides some incentive to stay in a lower division and earn Series points instead of moving up early.
In the So Cal Series, we have lots of new and up-and-coming players. However, not many players choose to play up in divisions. (MA4 is rarely offered anymore at events.)
Here is a recent AM only event with 87 players where only 7 players voluntarily moved up to a division above their rating. (Three MA4 rated players had to play in MA3).
http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/16979
All but four of the unrated players and PDGA non-members played Recreational....and none of those non-members took a top spot away from a rated player*. (*One non-member won Advanced GM). There were zero shouts of sandbagging to the MA2 and MA3 winners. Both these new players got their first PDGA wins! It appears the MA2 winner will automatically get bumped to the next division when PDGA ratings are updated.
It is too bad all Am divisions are not available everywhere. One reason it may work here ("it" being players registering for divisions for which they are rated) is because of the So Cal Series. The So Cal Series offers awards at the end of the year to the top finishers in ALL divisions (that had enough participants). This provides some incentive to stay in a lower division and earn Series points instead of moving up early.
Here is some historical information about the number of players in each division at So Cal Series events from 2011 to 2013.
In 2011 for all the So Cal Series events there were a total of 229 MA1, 215 MA2 and 194 MA3 players
In 2012 there were 262 MA1, 298 MA2 and 250 MA3.
In 2013 there were 380 MA1 (up 30% since 2011) 322 MA2 (up 33%) and 330 MA3 (up 61%)
If you refer to these divisions as MA1, MA2, MA3 and MA4 it takes some of the stigma of being labeled "recreational" or "novice" when you have been playing for several years.
MA3 - if you offer it, they will play it.
In 2011 for all the So Cal Series events there were a total of 229 MA1, 215 MA2 and 194 MA3 players
In 2012 there were 262 MA1, 298 MA2 and 250 MA3.
In 2013 there were 380 MA1 (up 30% since 2011) 322 MA2 (up 33%) and 330 MA3 (up 61%)
If you refer to these divisions as MA1, MA2, MA3 and MA4 it takes some of the stigma of being labeled "recreational" or "novice" when you have been playing for several years.
MA3 - if you offer it, they will play it.
DeadEye
Double Eagle Member
At this point I'd show up, not talk to anyone, play, win, and then hand out printed pages of that e-mail.
Improbably
Eagle Member
I have read this thread from the beginning, about a week or so ago. I'm definitely in agreement with your position. I don't know you personally or the Korean nationals involved, I have read about the course you established and think that's awesome, but for better or for worse my perception of the situation you are describing is a clash of culture.
They might me A** holes, they are sure acting like them, but they may also be acting according to the the norms of a more general Koran culture. The path to victory conditions in this situation, may not be the path toward fairness for you, but the path toward enlightening them to the standards of disc golf competition. Easier said than done I'm sure.
My 2 cents.
Japans culture is just about the farthest from American that you can find, and they still managed to work with the PDGA and follow the rules. The thing is, you have to want to change. And, in general, the Koreans don't want to. Which is why I recommend they sever their ties with the PDGA, before the PDGA does it for them.
FTR: the guy sending me the emails is NOT a Korean national. He is an American, over here as a teacher.
FTR: the guy sending me the emails is NOT a Korean national. He is an American, over here as a teacher.
