Need help from Tournament players

[AndyJB]

Well hello all---

Little background for those who don't know me. I've been around the sport for decades, having first started playing when I was seven years old (I turn 31 years old this year.) I played a few tourneys as a young lad, but only got "serious" regarding tournament play in 2012. My PDGA number is 55114 (my stats are here: Andrew Belet PDGA rating ) As you can see, I am currently rated 860 and am by no means a good player.

I have a deep love for the game (having played it for so long) and love introducing new people to the game. I ran the first-ever PDGA sanctioned league in a foreign country last year, and am looking to TD several events in Colorado this year.

Here is my dilemma. In South Korea, they run very few sanctioned events, and the ones that they do are full of chicanery and rampant cheating against foreign players. I recently registered for their "big" event...the Daegu Open, a C-Tier event in Daegu, South Korea. I registered in MA2. The TD emailed me and told me that the local Koreans and a few Americans were throwing a hissy fit and saying that I should be playing in Pro "because this is Korea."

I stuck to my guns and said that I was playing above my rating (divisions offered were MA1, MA2 and MA3) and I wasn't trying to sandbag, as in Korea Ams do not get prizes or scrip. In addition, it is a six hour trip for me to get to Daegu, and quite expensive. Ont op of all that, being military, I have to receive special permission to go that far for more than one day. I was told I could only go for one day, which suits me fine as MA2 is only playing one day. I was then told by the local players that I would have to register as MA1 or Pro and take a DNF. They have insisted that I play Pro or MA1 and have repeatedly called me a sandbagger, despite my explanations of the rules. The poor TD, who is honest to God one of the nicest and finest human beings I've ever met, is caught in the middle of all this and trying to play peacemaker. It came to a head today when some of the players (who are local to Daegu) came down with an ultimatum that they go or I go. Not wanting to ruin their event, I respectfully pulled out. Then I received this e-mail from one of their local players (TD name has been taken out in respect to him) :

"Hey Andrew,

Writing to you because of a concern that I and others share. I don't mean to be rude, just gonna be straight up with you.

I'm asking that you reconsider putting yourself in MA2 for the 3rd daegu open. Please register for MA1 or Pro division as those are the two that you should be placed in.

Please don't respond with explanations and reasons why because I heard them already from the TD.

Your worried about your PDGA rating because you can only play one day? Won't your rating be awesome after beating a bunch of beginners in MA2? Its nobodies fault but your own that you can only play one day. If you can only play one day, so be it, your problem. Asking the TD to be put in MA2 is kinda ridiculous, don't you think?

Its kind of disheartening knowing that an advocate of the sport such as yourself, whom I found on a couple occasions to be an all right guy, would pull such a move and won't reason due to selfish motive.

I guess you wan't to leave Korea having everyone think you are a sandbagger? I thought you were a cool guy. Also, some of us talked about how we liked what you were doing in your Dragon's Lair. We thought it was great for you to share your knowledge of the sport, especially in helping others.

If you insist on being in MA2, so be it.

I'm going to put in a request for our divisions in Korea to be renamed/relabled, whatever. Our pro division in Korea will be no more. Pro will be MA1 or MA2. MA1 will be MA2 and so forth. You understand, right?

Don't get me wrong here. You opened this clam and for some reason this has become a problem. Thanks for that. Were trying to help out this sport here in Korea and what your doing is moving a step backwards.

You are more than welcome to come and play. I looked forward to seeing you and talking shop as well. Just don't understand why your giving the TD a hard time about this.

Please let me know what you plan on doing so I can take appropriate steps. "

So my question to you guys, is how should I handle this? Currently, I'm leaning towards simply not responding to this guy, as I feel it would only worsen the situation. However, he has also insulted me and made sure I didn't play his tournament simply so he could beat me. Any suggestions?

It should also be said that the guys playing in MA1 average about one under or even on the course. Pros are always under. My best score there is 9 over.

 

[bradharris]

I just wouldn't play the event.

The PDGA guidelines work well in some areas and not as well in others. In New England, it seems most players play up a division. I'm 931 rated (only after a big jump at the end of the year) and I play Am 1. If I tried to play Am 2, I would probably cash easily in just about every tournament and would take quite a bit of heat for it.

So in addition to using the PDGA guidelines, it is important to guage the level of play to choose the right division. It sounds like although you're a rec rated player, you're a Korean Am 1 or Open player. Since you can't commit to play two days, that event just may not be the best option for you.

 

[Stardoggy]

So they don't like Americans (at least in the DG arena), is what you're saying?

If they don't want to play by the rules, I say F' em. Keep your money (unless you already paid) and leave Korea with your head held high. If you can't get your money back, go play MA2, and keep a laminated copy of the PDGA guidelines setting division placements. It's not your fault they can't seem to read the rules, or want to impart them randomly. There are very specific guidelines set in place for just these reasons. If these tournaments are sanctioned, maybe the PDGA needs to step in and resolve the conflict.

 

[kenjiac]

If it is a sanctioned event then go by pdga rules and rankings that is the point of sanctioning the event. You are qualifed for ma3 and you signed up for ma2 you already are trying to be accommodating. Maybe they shouldn't sanction their event.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'd withdraw. Frankly, I don't want to spend my valuable and limited time in such company.

But you could request a complete list of rules they won't be following, just to make the point.

 

[Stardoggy]

I'd withdraw. Frankly, I don't want to spend my valuable and limited time in such company.

Especially with a 6 hour drive/expenses factored in.

Save the money, buy some new discs, and crush the local course.

 

[jesseleereed]

If this is a PDGA sanctioned tournament then report the situation to the PDGA! If there is that much cheating going on then the PDGA has a responsibility to intervene. It sounds like they should not sanction Korean tournaments anymore!

 

[jesseleereed]

Well, I felt compelled to forward your entire post to the PDGA international director. It's in their hands now.

 

[NINFanInTN]

Seems the TD has his head up his ass. Why doesn't he add a MA4 (Novice) and let the locals play that, especially if they aren't a PDGA member?

 

[StingHP]

What type of discs do they play with? 150 style as in japan or more typical with what the states use?

 

[AndyJB]

Seems the TD has his head up his ass. Why doesn't he add a MA4 (Novice) and let the locals play that, especially if they aren't a PDGA member?

The TD is a great guy, and has been trying very hard to accommodate everyone. He is in a terrible position, where he is feeling the pressure from the "big guns" around here, namely the KPDGA president.

And I have withdrawn. I'm not worried about the money (it was a very inexpensive tournament, as Ams is trophy only and I the Pro purse is another huge boondoggle.) I actually feel bad for the TD because, as I mentioned, he is a great guy. I learned after I posted this that he is currently attempting to drop out as TD and file a complaint with the PDGA himself.

What a huge mess. What happened to "The Most Fun Wins!" attitude? Apparently it didn't reach Korea.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Sounds like a total cluster**** and totally not worth playing. Which sucks.
I'd say just forget the whole thing - no response to the letter, nothing. Just forget all of it.

 

[markmcc]

I don't see how this event could possibly be enjoyable to you now, given all of the crap that you've put up with. If it were me I'd skip the headache and spend my time & money one something more pleasant.

As for the jacka$$ that sent you the e-mail, I'm not sure that any response is warranted. Guy's a jerk, plain and simple.

 

[AndyJB]

Thanks guys. I think you all are right...the local player who sent that (who, by that way, is not now, nor has ever been, a PDGA member) isn't worth my time. I live Korea in early May and am already registered for several well-run tourneys in Colorado. Thanks guys...you prevented me from firing off a bitter, curse-filled response that would have only fanned the flames!

 

[DavidSauls]

You could invite that guy, and others like him, to this forum. We'd be happy to straighten them out.

 

[DavidSauls]

Thanks guys...you prevented me from firing off a bitter, curse-filled response that would have only fanned the flames!

I once asked someone how he manages to make civil replies to outrageous diatribes. He told me, "I write my reply. Then I delete it, and write the one I post."

Those players not following the rules will be stuck in their own mess. Once you're gone, they'll turn on whoever does well in MA2. Once he's gone, they'll turn on the next one. Once you're playing by mob rules instead of established rules, that's how it goes.

 

[AndyJB]

It's a truly sad state of affairs. There are tons of Koreans hungry for disc golf, but they are being taught to cheat and bend the rules. It's a crying shame, because, for the most part, they are all very nice people who are just being taught the wrong way.

 

[AndyJB]

What type of discs do they play with? 150 style as in japan or more typical with what the states use?

In Korea they play with full-weight discs. There is only one Innova retailer in country (the same guy who sent me the insulting e-mail) and he dominates by not letting anyone else sell discs. For example, when Hucking Aces came out with their stamped Wizards and Magics, I was selling them for 8 bucks (or 8,500 won) a piece. He threw another tantrum and said it wasn't fair because he sells for twice that.

Anyway, in regards to your question, he really sells local Koreans on Blizzard plastic, so many of them throw that primarily. The few serious players all throw max weight stuff, though.

 

[SkinnyArms]

Wow! With the information at hand, I would contact the pdga. They should not approve of any sanctioned event that the participants bully others to the point the question if they should play or not.

Messes need to be cleaned up, not swept under the rug for the next mess to be made. This needs to be seriously addressed, by the pdga and possibly by innova if the bully is indeed an innova retailer.

 

[shakatak]

Since Dennis Rodman cleaned up the mess in North Korea we should probably send him to South Korea to get this straightened out. Seriously though, nice job keeping your cool. I probably would have sent him (not the TD but that other guy) an email that would have definitely burnt all bridges. He seems like a tool.