No Discraft Pro's on Lead Cards Lately...

[Three Putt]

That number has been thrown around for a long time, I think DaveMac at Gateway even mentioned that as a rough estimate in one of his youtube rants. I doubt it's that far off, though with the number of new manufacturers fighting over the various niche markets it might be just a hair lower now.

Actually the Davey Mac rant (which I've heard several times) said Innova AND Discraft held 90% and everyone else was fighting over the other 10%. The breakout of the 90% was estimated at 70% Innova/20% Discraft. Nobody actually knows, though. Private companies, no sales data required.

 

[Halcón]

This thread has me thinking...how rare are we? What percent of disc golfers are as knowledgable about discs, players, and DG in general as us forum nerds? 10%? 5%?

(And I know nothing compared to members like Three Putt, who are the real sages)

 

[mashnut]

Actually the Davey Mac rant (which I've heard several times) said Innova AND Discraft held 90% and everyone else was fighting over the other 10%. The breakout of the 90% was estimated at 70% Innova/20% Discraft. Nobody actually knows, though. Private companies, no sales data required.

Gotcha, thanks. It is all guesswork, but I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers are reasonable given just how many places there are for noobs to buy innova.

 

[Three Putt]

*buys Innova*

*is a n00b*

 

[mashnut]

That's the thing, they've got almost all of the noob market, plus they still have a huge market share among experienced players.

 

[JC17393]

This thread has me thinking...how rare are we? What percent of disc golfers are as knowledgable about discs, players, and DG in general as us forum nerds? 10%? 5%?

(And I know nothing compared to members like Three Putt, who are the real sages)

I can only speak from personal experience, but if the disc golfing public at large is anything like the disc golfing public in my neck of the woods, I'd say tournament/league players plus "forum nerds" (basically, the totality of DGers who are fairly knowledgeable about discs, players, etc) probably is no more than 8-10% of the general population of people who have played the game. And that might be generous.

I'll put it this way...far far more people are shocked than not to find there is an official rule book for the game, let alone that there's a tour or people who play the game for a living (or at least try to make a living).

 

[mashnut]

I run a course and pro shop. On nice spring/summer days, I see 80-100+ players come through a day. Most of the time when a player comes in and wants to buy a disc, they don't have a clue what they're looking for. They just want one that "goes really straight and really far", or if they've owned discs before, they want to get another one of the disc they used to have but lost. When I ask them what it was so I can hand them exactly what they had before, they say "it was an Innova" or "it was a Discraft". When I ask them to be more specific, they look at me like I've got six heads and say something like "it was green" or "it was kinda see-through". Most of these players don't have a clue what mold or type of plastic they're throwing, and they don't care. These represent the majority of disc buyers out there.

I get a kick out of it when I play with someone new to the game and they tell me their favorite disc is an "Elite Z" or an "Innova". I always imagine some of the folks on the forums here with their heads exploding.

 

[Van1]

This thread has me thinking...how rare are we? What percent of disc golfers are as knowledgable about discs, players, and DG in general as us forum nerds? 10%? 5%?

(And I know nothing compared to members like Three Putt, who are the real sages)

I herd a couple of golfers talking about that foot fault from a recent tourney. My guess is it's a growing percentage but small at this point.

 

[JTacoma03]

This thread has me thinking...how rare are we? What percent of disc golfers are as knowledgable about discs, players, and DG in general as us forum nerds? 10%? 5%?

(And I know nothing compared to members like Three Putt, who are the real sages)

I'd say 5% at best...and I'll also contend that forum nerds aren't as right as they think they are about things. The forum culture (for everything, not just disc golf) tends to deviate from reality the more popular it becomes.

 

[jeverett]

I'd say 5% at best...and I'll also contend that forum nerds aren't as right as they think they are about things. The forum culture (for everything, not just disc golf) tends to deviate from reality the more popular it becomes.

I'd guess less than 5%. For example, thanks to a new pay-to-play local course with an annual membership option, we know that there are approximately 250 'serious' golfers in town (total population ~140,000). The course can sometimes get as many as 500 different (paying) players on a day, for a total disc golf population of easily several thousand. Out of this population, there are under 10 local golfers who are active on DGCR. So even out of the 'serious' playing population we're at ~4%, and probably at no more than 0.5% of the total playing population.

 

[smyith]

That's the case for every disc manufacturer. Look at Innova... all the pros throw the same discs... rocs, destroyers, teebirds, firebirds, kc pro aviars. Maybe a roadrunner or a leopard or a couple of others mixed in here or there. Mostly everything else is just fluff...

fluff??? ahahahahaha
add Eagle, Valkyrie, gators, rhyno, wraith, leopard, every other aviar mold, and xcal to that list. Plus they have been the main plastic innovators, not just copycats with slight variance. (yes in the last few years the new kids on the block have taken charge but in the 20+ years before that).
Innova has a following like no other from noobs to chuckers to competitive to collectors. Discraft has that with what maybe a few molds? and a run or two of said molds? Lat and company have a following among the forum hounds and a small percentage (but growing) of competitive players. All lat has really done though is blend up some incredible looking plastic with great glide and then tried to copy the flights of established discs. But even they have a better lineup then Discraft these days. And as they spread over here you will see them take over alot of Discraft's market share and probably not that much of innova's.

 

[cjskier]

Come on, JOHAN He's Dutch.

Danish, not dutch...

 

[ScottyLove]

When I walk into a chain store like Academy, MC Sports, Dicks, etc... you see nothing but Innova and Discraft with Innova being 80% of what I see. So of course the casual player is going to play these brands.

As for us hard core folks who buy online or use our winning vouchers to pick up plastic at tournaments, we're buying Latitude, Prodigy, Vibram, and MVP. I know the DiscGolfMonkey who runs tournaments in the 4 states area of Missouri, Arkansas, Kansas, and Oklahoma sells out of Prodigy after every event. If you don't get in line first, you won't get any. It is literally flying off the shelves. So he restocks with more before the next tournament and sells out again the next month. It wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't true at LS Discs and Spike Hyzer tournaments as well.

But again... this is "thread creep" as usual. The original post was about being tired of seeing no Discraft Pros in the finals... and that's just a very odd statement to me. Nikko and McBeth are my favorites to watch and they've been around the top all year. Nikko has had some HORRIBLE bad luck and still has all top 4 finishes except for Copenhagen. McBeth is just unbeatable except in two playoffs against Will... which I was able to witness both in person. :thmbup:

 

[Earic02]

But again... this is "thread creep" as usual. The original post was about being tired of seeing no Discraft Pros in the finals... and that's just a very odd statement to me. Nikko and McBeth are my favorites to watch and they've been around the top all year. Nikko has had some HORRIBLE bad luck and still has all top 4 finishes except for Copenhagen. McBeth is just unbeatable except in two playoffs against Will... which I was able to witness both in person. :thmbup:

OP here.

I throw a lot of Discraft, for a few reasons. I run an Ace Race every year, I live in Michigan, I work pretty close to the factory, and genuinely like their discs and plastic. (Mostly ESP and FLX, some Z and X)

That said, in a weird way, Discraft feels like "my brand" or "my team", etc. I like to throw and promote their stuff. It kinda sucks to walk into a PIAS and see 500 Innova discs and 2 DC discs.

I also like seeing guys throw what I throw. It was cool to see MJ crush a red Z Nuke (I think that's what it was..) vs McBeth and and Schusterick in whatever that tournament was last year, I think.

At this point, I throw an almost all Discraft bag, which isn't really going to change any time soon. In a backwards fashion, it's not that I want to buy what's winning, it's that I'd like to see what I'm using in the wins. (like a subconscious reinforcement). I throw ESP Nukes, and would like to see them CRUSHED on YouTube. Silly? Maybe. But honest.

Of course I like McBeth, Schusterick, Feldberg, etc. and enjoy the hell out of watching them dominate, it would just be nice to see a few Nukes / Forces / Buzzzes / Flicks / etc. and some Discraft members. I liked seeing Koling and Leiviska in final foursomes. Same with Paige Pierce and Sarah Hokom.

Random note: I'm also in marketing and would like to see good marketing / promo at the highest level of play. I know it might not mean everything, or a whole lot, but my brain seems to want to see it.

 

[Earic02]

^ http://youtu.be/XZBbSH4n2dU?t=39s

Edit: Blue-ish Z Nuke by MJ (I think it was a Nuke..), big ol hyzer flip.

That's right MJ, wave that towel and start walking.

Don't make eye contact with ANYONE.

(Man I wish that was me, without the tie dye and long hair..)

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

fluff??? ahahahahaha
add Eagle, Valkyrie, gators, rhyno, wraith, leopard, every other aviar mold, and xcal to that list. Plus they have been the main plastic innovators, not just copycats with slight variance. (yes in the last few years the new kids on the block have taken charge but in the 20+ years before that).
Innova has a following like no other from noobs to chuckers to competitive to collectors. Discraft has that with what maybe a few molds? and a run or two of said molds? Lat and company have a following among the forum hounds and a small percentage (but growing) of competitive players. All lat has really done though is blend up some incredible looking plastic with great glide and then tried to copy the flights of established discs. But even they have a better lineup then Discraft these days. And as they spread over here you will see them take over alot of Discraft's market share and probably not that much of innova's.

I hate that this has turned into a Innova vs DC thread.


but here are my thoughts.

Discraft has always had a better mid line up (except the ROC). I used to throw Innova drivers, DC mids, and Gateway putters.

Now, Innova and DC have fallen behind in the categories they were the most dominant. I throw Lat/Westside/Prodigy for drivers. Lat for fairways, The ROC for mid. and gateway for putters. the only DC or Innova discs left that I throw are Rocs,Wasps,Zones, and the occasional Firebird Thumber.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

 

[Three Putt]

As for us hard core folks who buy online or use our winning vouchers to pick up plastic at tournaments, we're buying Latitude, Prodigy, Vibram, and MVP. I know the DiscGolfMonkey who runs tournaments in the 4 states area of Missouri, Arkansas, Kansas, and Oklahoma sells out of Prodigy after every event. If you don't get in line first, you won't get any. It is literally flying off the shelves. So he restocks with more before the next tournament and sells out again the next month. It wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't true at LS Discs and Spike Hyzer tournaments as well.

Reality: At events I rarely pick up Innova, Discmania, Discraft or Gateway because I can get them any time anywhere. I pick up weird stuff like Lat 64 because I'm not going to see it again for a long time. If I had a harder time finding Discraft, I'd be a lot more likely to use my voucher on it.

 

[_MTL_]

This thread has me thinking...how rare are we? What percent of disc golfers are as knowledgable about discs, players, and DG in general as us forum nerds? 10%? 5%?

(And I know nothing compared to members like Three Putt, who are the real sages)

I don't think that that is that rare of sports not televised on TV.

I like to Bowl, but I couldn't tell you the name of more than one bowler (only I know of is Pete Weber b/c he does the PBW thing with this arms).

I like table tennis, couldn't tell you a single table tennis player.

I really like softball. Couldn't tell you a single softball player excpet Jenny Finch and that's not b/c of her playing, that's for sure.

The point is we aren't that rare that a small percentage of players know about the elite players.

 

[ScottyLove]

I guess I prefer to see great play over discs in my bag thrown. When I see a great shot, my first thought is NOT what disc was thrown... but who threw and what technique it was. I'm a firm believer that the disc is the least relevant part of the game.

The player skill/ability is the biggest factor, course setup 2nd, weather/playing conditions 3rd, baskets 4th, and then disc. I think Feldberg has proven in pretty short time that it's the "archer, not the arrow" after switching to Latitude 64.

So I watch replays most every night of new and older tournaments and never do I ask myself what disc was thrown... but more I just marvel at the flight path. Maybe it's because I know I cannot make the same disc do the same thing the top guys can do. Since I can't throw a Roc 350 ft. or a putter that far (which I've witnessed Ricky do on many occasions), it doesn't matter. I'm pulling my 13-speed driver if I'm playing that same hole.