Micronaut
Par Member
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2012
- Messages
- 108
Regarding Morefadeplz's comments: He does not have it exactly right. He is saying that lift causes flip, but he is referring to lift acting on on the "nose" of the disc. In actuality, this would cause the nose to come up, which would cause the disc to rise vertically, and also slow down. This is why is it important to throw the discs more flat, or nose down for distance. Otherwise the nose will come up, the disc will slow down - basically stall - the decrease in speed will reduce the relative wind on the left wing, and increase it on the right (relatively speaking), causing it to fade hard and "hyzer out". He's right that lift causes turn, but it is lift differential between the left and right wings as I described; not lift in general. This is completely consistent with my prior analysis. As for the disc being "designed to lift," sure discs' wings vary in how they react to relative wind. This is why some discs are more flippy than others.
As to why a pro can do things with a disc that noobies can't, that's like saying that a fighter pilot can do things with an airplane that a novice cannot. This is not surprising, and it doesn't prove anything other than that pros have skills beyond the rest of us.
Regarding Mullethead326's comments: He says a few interesting things. For instance, If you try to throw an Aviar with the same armspeed as a Boss, it's likely that it would turn over on you in a hurry. The reason for this is because at velocities above the design speed of any disc, it will tend to "turn over" on you, and likewise at velocities below the design speed it will "fade"." But why is this true? Could it be for the exact reasons that I already described? Let's read on... "This is made more apparent by a pure headwind or tailwind. A headwind makes the "apparent velocity" of the passing air much greater from the disc's perspective, and a tailwind makes the "apparent velocity" much lower. Doubtless that's something you've observed... and that's why." This "apparent velocity" he is talking about is just a different way of referring to the relative wind. It is referencing how fast the disc is mowing in relation to the wind. With a headwind the disc's "apparent velocity" is greater in relation to the wind, thus the relative wind is greater, resulting in more turn; just as I said. With a tailwind the opposite happens. This analysis actually agrees with mine, although it uses slightly different terminology.
This next part is a little off. "The simple answer for most throwing practices is that you can put as much snap on any disc as you want, and it will carry. Armspeed has to be managed more carefully, otherwise the disc will be moving faster than it's design speed and flip (you can counter this somewhat by throwing an artificial "hyzer flip" with a putter by releasing it hyzer)." He's saying that the spin won't effect the turn, that only the linear momentum of the disc will. But this is wrong. The linear momentum of the entire disc contributes to the relative wind on the spinning wings. The effect of linear momentum and angular momentum are additive in terms of how they effect relative wind on the left and right wings. This is what causes the changes in lift differential between the left and right wings resulting in more turn at high speed and more fade at low speeds. Relative wind is the reason why you need a more overstable disc to fight a headwind. Of course adding some hyzer will help. But if you think about it, the lift differential between the left and right wings is the only way to account for a disc tending to flip up out of a hyzer. If not for greater lift under the left wing, and lesser lift under the right, the disc would tend to maintain its angle of flight.
As for OAT, well heck, wobble is going to throw everything off in terms of aerodynamics and angular momentum. I actually don't understand why OAT would tend to cause more turn (maybe someone here can explain this). I have never actually noticed that. But then, I try to avoid OAT like the plague! : -)
As to why a pro can do things with a disc that noobies can't, that's like saying that a fighter pilot can do things with an airplane that a novice cannot. This is not surprising, and it doesn't prove anything other than that pros have skills beyond the rest of us.
Regarding Mullethead326's comments: He says a few interesting things. For instance, If you try to throw an Aviar with the same armspeed as a Boss, it's likely that it would turn over on you in a hurry. The reason for this is because at velocities above the design speed of any disc, it will tend to "turn over" on you, and likewise at velocities below the design speed it will "fade"." But why is this true? Could it be for the exact reasons that I already described? Let's read on... "This is made more apparent by a pure headwind or tailwind. A headwind makes the "apparent velocity" of the passing air much greater from the disc's perspective, and a tailwind makes the "apparent velocity" much lower. Doubtless that's something you've observed... and that's why." This "apparent velocity" he is talking about is just a different way of referring to the relative wind. It is referencing how fast the disc is mowing in relation to the wind. With a headwind the disc's "apparent velocity" is greater in relation to the wind, thus the relative wind is greater, resulting in more turn; just as I said. With a tailwind the opposite happens. This analysis actually agrees with mine, although it uses slightly different terminology.
This next part is a little off. "The simple answer for most throwing practices is that you can put as much snap on any disc as you want, and it will carry. Armspeed has to be managed more carefully, otherwise the disc will be moving faster than it's design speed and flip (you can counter this somewhat by throwing an artificial "hyzer flip" with a putter by releasing it hyzer)." He's saying that the spin won't effect the turn, that only the linear momentum of the disc will. But this is wrong. The linear momentum of the entire disc contributes to the relative wind on the spinning wings. The effect of linear momentum and angular momentum are additive in terms of how they effect relative wind on the left and right wings. This is what causes the changes in lift differential between the left and right wings resulting in more turn at high speed and more fade at low speeds. Relative wind is the reason why you need a more overstable disc to fight a headwind. Of course adding some hyzer will help. But if you think about it, the lift differential between the left and right wings is the only way to account for a disc tending to flip up out of a hyzer. If not for greater lift under the left wing, and lesser lift under the right, the disc would tend to maintain its angle of flight.
As for OAT, well heck, wobble is going to throw everything off in terms of aerodynamics and angular momentum. I actually don't understand why OAT would tend to cause more turn (maybe someone here can explain this). I have never actually noticed that. But then, I try to avoid OAT like the plague! : -)
