Opinion: Pay to Play is Not a Con

[autocrosscrx]

So the other day, there was a giant group of players at a local public course. They were doing everything that we, as disc golfers, tend to admonish --- mob golf, littering, dogs off leashes, throwing into people, walking in front of people throwing, breaking limbs that obstructed their throws, kicking baskets, etc.

They actually stopped me (by walking in front of me as I was in my reach back) and asked me where/how they paid to play.

 

[glassila]

My rating would be the same, but I'd mention the P2P as a con. I might mention the "free" as a pro on its twin.

If both courses were equidistant from me, and all other things equal, I'd probably play the free one more.

If someone were asking where they should play when visiting, I'd recommend both, but also mention that only one is free. The visitor could decide whether that mattered to him, or not.

I write reviews like a recommendation.

Yeah, I was somewhat equating cons with ratings. Cons and ratings are certainly related, but are not synonymous.

Some cons are minor (p2p, no water in play, highway noise) and may or may not not affect a person's rating while some cons are major (no maintenance, no signs, no challenge) and greatly affect a course's rating.

 

[DavidSauls]

Yes. And sometimes the review comment can be translated as, "This feature doesn't matter to me, but it might matter to you." So I mention it, even if it doesn't affect the rating I give.

The value in this site's course ratings is that they average people's preferences, in relation to how much importance the reviewers give them. So if 10% of reviewers reduce their ratings for P2P, or poor signage, or whatever, the course's rating will be affected by that slight amount.

"Minor" (not affecting the rating, but mentioned anyway) and "Major" (affecting the rating) will vary from person to person, but will average out.

 

[magictenor1]

I think its certainly fair to list it as a con since the vast majority of courses are free, As has been stated everyone can make up their own mind about that info.

 

[DoWork]

Pro or Con, I honestly don't care how people feel about it tbh but my main gripe comes from people just walking on to a P2P course and simply not paying as if that was an option- which is a huge problem for our course right now. It's stealing, period- and I wish more people had more integrity out there. I'm going to have to pay a person to stand there next year to take peoples' money and then they're going to complain if the cost goes up as a result. It's sad. People want that high level of amenities, but they don't want to pay? gtfo. I don't have time for that level of entitlement and the P2P complainers can go elsewhere if they don't want to pay.

 

[ru4por]

Pro or Con, I honestly don't care how people feel about it tbh but my main gripe comes from people just walking on to a P2P course and simply not paying as if that was an option- which is a huge problem for our course right now. It's stealing, period- and I wish more people had more integrity out there. I'm going to have to pay a person to stand there next year to take peoples' money and then they're going to complain if the cost goes up as a result. It's sad. People want that high level of amenities, but they don't want to pay? gtfo. I don't have time for that level of entitlement and the P2P complainers can go elsewhere if they don't want to pay.

Truth. The above was the true casualty of COVID, for me. The faith I used to have that most people had integrity was destroyed.

The very players that cause the price increase will indeed be the loudest and most outraged.

 

[acrosley]

Maybe disc golf should take a cue from EA and Ubisoft. Let people in for free but charge 25 cents for each tee box and 1 dollar for each basket

 

[BillFleming]

Pro or Con, I honestly don't care how people feel about it tbh but my main gripe comes from people just walking on to a P2P course and simply not paying as if that was an option- which is a huge problem for our course right now. It's stealing, period- and I wish more people had more integrity out there. I'm going to have to pay a person to stand there next year to take peoples' money and then they're going to complain if the cost goes up as a result. It's sad. People want that high level of amenities, but they don't want to pay? gtfo. I don't have time for that level of entitlement and the P2P complainers can go elsewhere if they don't want to pay.

Morley DGC in San Diego gives you a wrist band (like amusement parks) when you pay. That lets them easily check who paid and who didn't. You can attach it to your wrist, your bag, or something else where it is visible. I saw players who collect them on their bags like a trophy.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Morley DGC in San Diego gives you a wrist band (like amusement parks) when you pay. That lets them easily check who paid and who didn't. You can attach it to your wrist, your bag, or something else where it is visible. I saw players who collect them on their bags like a trophy.

I suspect they are collecting them because there are only so many colors available before Morley has to repeat the same color band.

 

[Shadrach3]

Calling it a con is a statement that the owner shouldn't charge money if he expects you to find no fault with his course.

I think I disagree on this point. Courses can have cons without being considered a fault. Potential con: "You could get sunburned." That's not a fault of the course, it's a fact of being outdoors.

So, when it comes to pay-to-play, if I list it as a con, it in no way means I think the course should be free. I am simply referencing the unfortunate fact that I'm poorer after playing the course, which has to happen because courses are expensive to create and maintain. It's not a rag; it's a statement that you have to give something up at this course that you currently don't at many courses, even if giving it up is 100% worth it.

I put it in the same category as a con like "Extra exhausting", or "Takes longer than average to play", or "Far out of the way to get to." None of those affect my rating, or make me find fault with the course.

 

[BillFleming]

I suspect they are collecting them because there are only so many colors available before Morley has to repeat the same color band.

I thought the same thing, but as I recall the bands also have words on them or a design that makes them unique enough.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I thought the same thing, but as I recall the bands also have words on them or a design that makes them unique enough.

I knew that Snapper (owner) had that figured out.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

I think I disagree on this point. Courses can have cons without being considered a fault. Potential con: "You could get sunburned." That's not a fault of the course, it's a fact of being outdoors.

That's what the course information section is for. But your review could look like this:

"Pros:

It's outside. There's disc golf. There's no prohibition against farting. My dog is a GSP.

Cons:

It costs money. You could get sunburned. It's a long way from my house. The owners haven't taken any public stance on rooftop beekeeping as an earth-saving hobby.

Other thoughts:

Clouds should not float. Not all water is wet"

If it isn't a "fault" then why put it in the "cons" section of a review of the course? By doing so, you are putting it in the negative column: something that the course would be better without. You can rhetorically run from that all you want, but that's what it is.

If its just something for others to consider, and you do not mean it as a negative, you shouldn't be putting it in the cons section IMO. Of course you are free to do so, but your mental gymnastics centered on not wanting to portray it as a negative are not very persuasive.

 

[elmexdela]

if you play a round at this private course you get $10 by the owner just for playing a full round there is that a pro of playing there

 

[autocrosscrx]

That's what the course information section is for. But your review could look like this:

"Pros:

It's outside. There's disc golf. There's no prohibition against farting. My dog is a GSP.

Cons:

It costs money. You could get sunburned. It's a long way from my house. The owners haven't taken any public stance on rooftop beekeeping as an earth-saving hobby.

Other thoughts:

Clouds should not float. Not all water is wet"

If it isn't a "fault" then why put it in the "cons" section of a review of the course? By doing so, you are putting it in the negative column: something that the course would be better without. You can rhetorically run from that all you want, but that's what it is.

If its just something for others to consider, and you do not mean it as a negative, you shouldn't be putting it in the cons section IMO. Of course you are free to do so, but your mental gymnastics centered on not wanting to portray it as a negative are not very persuasive.

It is straight up a negative. Most of us spend about half our waking hours working a job that we may or may not like. Why? Because we need money. For food, shelter, to get the medical attention that may be needed to keep us alive, etc. And most of us have a finite amount of money. And some of us may not even be known how we can continue to get more of it. So yeah, giving up some of such an important resource to do something that you can do for free is a negative.

That doesn't mean that the course is bad or isn't worth playing or that it even impacted my rating. And the benefits from paying money might even outweigh that negative. But paying money is absolutely a negative.

 

[ru4por]

It is straight up a negative. Most of us spend about half our waking hours working a job that we may or may not like. Why? Because we need money. For food, shelter, to get the medical attention that may be needed to keep us alive, etc. And most of us have a finite amount of money. And some of us may not even be known how we can continue to get more of it. So yeah, giving up some of such an important resource to do something that you can do for free is a negative.

That doesn't mean that the course is bad or isn't worth playing or that it even impacted my rating. And the benefits from paying money might even outweigh that negative. But paying money is absolutely a negative.

Disc golf is not free. You are playing with equipment that is paid for. You are playing in a park or on land that is paid for. You are enjoying upkeep and maintenance that is paid for. These are extensive costs that are covered by someone.

Is you position that your disc golf should be free to you, but paid for by others?

 

[autocrosscrx]

Disc golf is not free. You are playing with equipment that is paid for. You are playing in a park or on land that is paid for. You are enjoying upkeep and maintenance that is paid for. These are extensive costs that are covered by someone.

Is you position that your disc golf should be free to you, but paid for by others?

No.

My grandmother died. Even though it is completely inevitable that we all die, I found it to be a negative that my grandmother died.

 

[aphilso1]

Is you position that your disc golf should be free to you, but paid for by others?

I think that's the position of 99% of disc golfers.

 

[Chaz58]

When they start refunding my some of my property taxes and other taxes I pay as a home owner that help pay for upkeep of the courses around me (since almost every one of them is a park district course people are already P2P) then I'll pay 5 or 10 bucks to frolf for the day. As for the rest of the morons who all want to P2P (here's looking at you ru4por), well, as the old saying goes: a fool and his money......

 

[Cgkdisc]

When they start refunding my some of my property taxes and other taxes I pay as a home owner that help pay for upkeep of the courses around me (since almost every one of them is a park district course people are already P2P) then I'll pay 5 or 10 bucks to frolf for the day. As for the rest of the morons who all want to P2P (here's looking at you ru4por), well, as the old saying goes: a fool and his money......

Makes sense if the only courses you play are in your park district.