Overlap Q ... I know, I know...

[mesh1er]

Sorry, I know everyone gets crazy annoyed with these, but I wouldn't ask if I didn't trust the responses (hopefully) of certain posters on this board. I've spent hours and hours researching and throwing in the field and debating on my current bag set up. I'm close, but just can't seem to convince myself enough to make a decision. I'm throwing around 350' now both sidearm and backhand.

Driver Slot:

174 ESP Pulse - sidearm

175 SOLF - feels too heavy for me to backhand... experimenting with sidearm

165 X Predator - just got it...trying to learn it
169 ESP Surge - almost brand new... want to love it...
165 MOLF
171 X Avenger - LOVE throwing these...
165 X Avenger - see above... they make me feel confident
167 SOLS
168 Z XL
165 D Cyclone - like 'em a bit more than gazelles
171 DX Leopard - may just replace with a beat gazelle... not sure. lost my beloved 168 Pro Leo, haven't gotten a new one yet. Might like to try out a Glide here... not sure.

Mid:

177 Z Buzzz
165 X Stratus (pulled from my bag because I've read here that it's a "crutch"... I miss it though...lots)

Putt Slot:

175 S Wizard
167 SSS Wizard



*** I love my putter section, and use them for all of my approaches. I want to get a Z Wasp to go along with the buzzz... just sold off a drone that I didn't really take to.

*** Biggest debate personally is with the driver section... that's where I'm seeking help. I'm having a problem putting them into the "5" driver slots.

Again, sorry to ask, but I needed to. Thanks in advance!

 

[dave9668]

I will try and help as much as I can.

Can you throw the Pulse backhand?
If not, you need a overstable backhand disc. the X pred. will work at first, but will break in and lose some stability. You may try a Z avenger as they are alot more overstable than the X and why not throw a disc you are at least somewhat familiar with.

If the SOLF is too heavy drop it I see no need forcing yourself into something. you already have a surge and X avengers which to me fly very similar.

I dont know much about the SOLS, XL or Cyclone. I would recommend the Leopard over the glide. The wasp is a great companion to the buzzz.


Hope this is at least somewhat helpful.

 

[SpikeHyzer]

Just to let you know...I am a bit of a minimalist when it comes to carrying different molds. I carry 3 driver molds, 2 midrange molds and 2 putter molds.

First thing...drop the X-Pred. It is being discontinued by Discraft. No sense in learning a disc that will become hard to find. Maybe pick up a Tsunami instead. They are very similar to the X-Pred.

The Pulse and SOLF are pretty similar too. I would pick one or the other.

The Surge and MOLF are a bit of overlap too. I would pick one or the other.

The XL/Cyclone/Leopard is a bit of overlap too. I would try to get rid of one of those.

Put the stratus back in your bag. It is a great utility disc. One of our top local's swears by the x-stratus.

I would look at adding possibly an X-Buzzz or D-Buzzz and possibly a Z-Wasp to your midrange line up.

Putters...rock solid. You can't go wrong with a wizard. Great for approaches, short drives and putting.

 

[garublador1]

If not, you need a overstable backhand disc. the X pred. will work at first, but will break in and lose some stability. You may try a Z avenger as they are alot more overstable than the X and why not throw a disc you are at least somewhat familiar with.

This was going to be my main point and I got beat to it. I'd say you can replace these discs:

174 ESP Pulse - sidearm

175 SOLF - feels too heavy for me to backhand... experimenting with sidearm

165 X Predator - just got it...trying to learn it
169 ESP Surge - almost brand new... want to love it...
165 MOLF
171 X Avenger - LOVE throwing these...
165 X Avenger - see above... they make me feel confident
167 SOLS

With only Avengers. The Z (I haven't thrown the ESP) works well as a moderately oversatable driver, so it would push out the X Pred and OLFs and the X Avenger would be your distance driver and would push out the OLFs and OLSs. I'm not too familiar with the Pulse or Surge, but depending on their stability, they'd overlap with either the X or Z Avenger in the same way as the other discs I mentioned above. I'd also recommend adding something really overstable like a Z Pred, E Spirit or Champ Firebird. Once you get used to them and throwing spike hyzers you won't know how you lived without them.

The Cyclone will replace the Leopard when it gets beat in. After that, get a new D Cyclone and start a cycle. How are you using the Z XL? If it's mostly for straight shots and the Cyclone is for when you are looking for some other line then you might be OK. IMO there are better options for a straight driver, though.

If you haven't yet, putting your drivers into the 5 categories outlined in the disc overlap article might help with some of these decisions, too.

I'm mostly echoing what BLURR said, but if you like the understability of the X Stratus and want to minimize the number of molds you carry you might want to try a D Buzzz. Adding a Wasp might not be a bad idea, either.

 

[Greatzky]

why do you need "5 driver" slots??
I carry Teebirds and Teerexes... plus 1 firebird because i lost my overstable Teerex.
I see that you cut down your putter and mid section. you could easily do the same with your driver section.

I went down to florida and only brought 4 discs with me and beat all my personal records at the courses i played down there. i only had a kc pro aviar, beat dx roc, beat dx teebird, and a dx beast and I don't even throw beasts!

Throw what you are used to i guess.. I never could get used to many molds though.

To be more constructive I'd say your bag is looking pretty good although I'd rather see you carry more multiples of a disc than to carry 9 different Driver molds.

 

[J-Man]

I too favor less molds, I carry Crushes and Preds (I can't give up the X, I'm stocking up). Let's face it, you need discs that go right, straight, and left, and you need that at different distances. I think it's simpler to find one or two molds that do this, some might need some breaking in, but that means you're playing. Then relax and play, let's face it you'll never figure this out, just when you think you have it, it changes, so accept that and enjoy the playing. That is unless you go pro and make a living at it, but that would mean you are 1 in 100,000. Just have fun, but I do think fewer molds make it a bit more simple. J

 

[masterbeato]

This is how I would see a great bag. A bag that's very predictable but I'm not in a position to tell you that you need this but i'm in a position to try and help:

165-169 Z Predator - The better side of the pred, holds hyzers better and way more predictable for a long period of time, when brken in does whatever you want it to do but still hyzers back no matter what

171-175 D Cyclone - Very much better then a gazelle plus you say your more comfortable with it

0165-MOLF - I'm guessing your more confortable with this one then the SOLF

165-171 Z Avenger - Like all the guys are saying

I suggest getting rid of the surge, I see nothing but irritating things coming form this disc, and one of the squrrliest discs of them all. Try a QOLF instead if you like something more stable, might fit into the pulse a little better. I'm just saying this because their two different discs altogether but have similar use and you might find it a lot better then using a pulse, QOLF is better into the wind also.

You can also keep the X Avenger too if you really feel very comfortable with them. As for a midrange bag You are making a great choice first off by getting rid of the drone. A lot of people throw the drone and buzzz combo but the drone is a crappy disc altogether (no offense). The Z wasp and buzzz combois much better because its way more versitile. Putters are your choice.

Now, this is just a guidline to think about i'm not trying to force you to do anything, just think about it and see what you think, maybe you will go for it and maybe you won't, just something to help you out a bit to minimize molds and making sure their aren't any flaws about it.

 

[mesh1er]

1. stable control - Z XL/Cyclone
2. distance - X Avenger
3. understable - Beat Cyclone
4. moderately overstable - Z Avenger (or X on a more hyzer line?)
5. very overstable - Z Pred/Firebird/Tsunami/E Spirit... will have to try 'em...don't have any currently

**Would that be looking a little better? #1 confuses me some...I can throw them both with a lot of control, but throw the XL a little further and thus usually reach for the cyclone for tunnel shots. I was debating the SOLS in this slot too, but was told here that the XL was better because it was slower. Maybe I just don't understand the SOLS yet (not on joe's flight chart). Cyclone feels more like a fairway driver to me.

**What's with the Z Avenger? I thought this forum loved the X lol... that's why I got one to try out & I love it. =)

**So are the MOLF, Avengers, Surges, SOLS, etc all overlapping each other? If I have to pick one, it's avenger.

**The X Stratus has a place in my heart, however I'm finding that my Wizards can hold the anny lines that I was using it for, so I'm debating that. Stratus does roll well..

Thanks for the replies thus far!

 

[garublador1]

why do you need "5 driver" slots??

Slots, not molds. It's from this article:

http://www.discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/discoverlap.shtml

You're probably covering all those slots with those three molds. I have 4 molds that cover those 5 slots and two of the molds overlap.

1. stable control - Z XL/Cyclone
2. distance - X Avenger
3. understable - Beat Cyclone
4. moderately overstable - Z Avenger (or X on a more hyzer line?)
5. very overstable - Z Pred/Firebird/Tsunami/E Spirit... will have to try 'em...don't have any currently

I'm not 100% sure on whether or not the Tsunamiis overstable enough for #5, but it's worth checking out. If it holds a spike hyzer in the wind then it will probably work.

I have overlap in slot 1 as well. One thing I'd recommend is to throw a few rounds with just the XL and a few rounds with just the Cyclone for slot 1 all on the same course. It might help you figure out how you use each differently or whether you prefer one over the other. The SOLS is probably too fast for that spot.

I don't think the X Avenger is overstable enough for the #4 slot. Most of the stuff about throwing lower grade plastic is for straight and control drivers, midranges and putters. High end plastics work great for when you need a disc that will keep its overstability and you aren't worried about losing a bit of glide.

Besies those small details it's seems like you understand the slots well. I'd guess that if you switched from the bag you first listed to the bag above you'd find your average score would drop and your confidence in any given shot would rise.

If it helps this is how my bag breaks down:

1. DX Teebird (straight)/DX Gazelle (different lines)
2. X Avenger
3. Beat Gazelle
4. Z Avenger
5. E Spirit

 

[mesh1er]

1. stable control - Z XL/Cyclone
2. distance - X Avenger
3. understable - Beat Cyclone
4. moderately overstable - Z Avenger (or X on a more hyzer line?)
5. very overstable - Z Pred/Firebird/Tsunami/E Spirit... will have to try 'em...don't have any currently

Okay, here's how I'm looking now:

1. stable control - D Cyclone
2. distance - X Avenger
3. understable - Beat D Cyclone
4. moderately overstable - ESP Avenger
5. very overstable - Champ Firebird
+
Z Buzzz
Z Wasp
X Stratus
Wizards

Few things I'm running into:

-- I'm really loving the ESP Flash (first run, pink, 168), and find myself reaching for it a lot. I still love the X Avenger, but I'm finding myself reaching for the esp flash before it now, and seem to be able to throw it just as far. That kind of saddens me because I want to keep my x avengers around. I still throw them on a longer hyzer lines, but I'm reaching for the new flash with the straighter stuff. So that's one issue..

-- ESP Avenger was stolen. Oddly enough, it wasn't all that devastating to me. I never felt like I threw it too well. Certainly not anywhere close to my x avengers distance wise. Very very overstable for me. Not sure... may try a z avenger out in this slot (4) instead.

-- 165 Champ Firebird... I just can't figure this thing out. I may just be misunderstanding the disc.. it spike hyzers for sure, just can't get much distance out of it. I rarely touch it, honestly.

-- Getting ready to trade off a FLX Buzz & an ESP Wasp. I wasn't really feelin either... I'll stick to the Z's. Holla if interested.

Well, it's snowing out & I'm bored, so I figured I'd shell out everything on my mind and see what you guys thought. Thanks in advance.

 

[latitude]

I would say replace that Champ Firebird with a Z Predator :wink:

 

[thatdirtykid]

1. stable control - Z XL/Cyclone
2. distance - X Avenger
3. understable - Beat Cyclone
4. moderately overstable - Z Avenger (or X on a more hyzer line?)
5. very overstable - Z Pred/Firebird/Tsunami/E Spirit... will have to try 'em...don't have any currently

Okay, here's how I'm looking now:

1. stable control - D Cyclone
2. distance - X Avenger
3. understable - Beat D Cyclone
4. moderately overstable - ESP Avenger
5. very overstable - Champ Firebird
+
Z Buzzz
Z Wasp
X Stratus
Wizards

Few things I'm running into:

-- I'm really loving the ESP Flash (first run, pink, 168), and find myself reaching for it a lot. I still love the X Avenger, but I'm finding myself reaching for the esp flash before it now, and seem to be able to throw it just as far. That kind of saddens me because I want to keep my x avengers around. I still throw them on a longer hyzer lines, but I'm reaching for the new flash with the straighter stuff. So that's one issue..

-- ESP Avenger was stolen. Oddly enough, it wasn't all that devastating to me. I never felt like I threw it too well. Certainly not anywhere close to my x avengers distance wise. Very very overstable for me. Not sure... may try a z avenger out in this slot (4) instead.

-- 165 Champ Firebird... I just can't figure this thing out. I may just be misunderstanding the disc.. it spike hyzers for sure, just can't get much distance out of it. I rarely touch it, honestly.

-- Getting ready to trade off a FLX Buzz & an ESP Wasp. I wasn't really feelin either... I'll stick to the Z's. Holla if interested.

Well, it's snowing out & I'm bored, so I figured I'd shell out everything on my mind and see what you guys thought. Thanks in advance.

I agree except replace the stratus with a broken in D buzzz or replace all mids with wasps of different stages of wear.

 

[Rod Gilmore]

Sam, Rodney Gilmore here. I assume you are the Sam I already know. If thats the case, hit me up with a PM with your phone number and we'll meet up and I can help you out. Besides, I already have a big box of used stuff we might be able to pick through and help fill some holes in your lineup.

 

[mesh1er]

1. stable control - Z XL/Cyclone
2. distance - X Avenger
3. understable - Beat Cyclone
4. moderately overstable - Z Avenger (or X on a more hyzer line?)
5. very overstable - Z Pred/Firebird/Tsunami/E Spirit... will have to try 'em...don't have any currently

Okay, here's how I'm looking now:

1. stable control - D Cyclone
2. distance - X Avenger
3. understable - Beat D Cyclone
4. moderately overstable - ESP Avenger
5. very overstable - Champ Firebird
+
Z Buzzz
Z Wasp
X Stratus
Wizards

Few things I'm running into:

-- I'm really loving the ESP Flash (first run, pink, 168), and find myself reaching for it a lot. I still love the X Avenger, but I'm finding myself reaching for the esp flash before it now, and seem to be able to throw it just as far. That kind of saddens me because I want to keep my x avengers around. I still throw them on a longer hyzer lines, but I'm reaching for the new flash with the straighter stuff. So that's one issue..

-- ESP Avenger was stolen. Oddly enough, it wasn't all that devastating to me. I never felt like I threw it too well. Certainly not anywhere close to my x avengers distance wise. Very very overstable for me. Not sure... may try a z avenger out in this slot (4) instead.

-- 165 Champ Firebird... I just can't figure this thing out. I may just be misunderstanding the disc.. it spike hyzers for sure, just can't get much distance out of it. I rarely touch it, honestly.

-- Getting ready to trade off a FLX Buzz & an ESP Wasp. I wasn't really feelin either... I'll stick to the Z's. Holla if interested.

Well, it's snowing out & I'm bored, so I figured I'd shell out everything on my mind and see what you guys thought. Thanks in advance.

I agree except replace the stratus with a broken in D buzzz or replace all mids with wasps of different stages of wear.

Update -- Traded in some stuff at PIAS today & picked up a Z Pred & Z Avenger.

So now, I'm looking at:

1. stable control - D Cyclone
2. distance - X Avenger
3. understable - Beat D Cyclone
4. moderately overstable - Z Avenger
5. very overstable - Z Pred

I'm still loving the ESP Flash though... argh. My guess is that it overlaps with the X Avengers a bit, which is what I'm worried about. I want them both in the bag.. Thoughts?

All I want now is to pick up a D buzzz & some more wizards (got a basket at Christmas). Perhaps a warlock to check out too.

 

[sleepy1]

I'm still loving the ESP Flash though... argh. My guess is that it overlaps with the X Avengers a bit, which is what I'm worried about. I want them both in the bag.. Thoughts?

Is the ESP Flash as reliable as the X Avenger when you need it to hold a hyzer line? I'd probably pick whichever of the two can do this best, because they're only going to become less stable as they beat up.


sleepy

 

[Timko]

I carry both the X and the ESP, along with the Flash. I guess the X Avenger and Flash overlap in some aspects, but on a day when one isn't working for me, the other one is.

I'm also not of the minimalism religion.

 

[JR]

I carry both the X and the ESP, along with the Flash. I guess the X Avenger and Flash overlap in some aspects, but on a day when one isn't working for me, the other one is.

I'm also not of the minimalism religion.

Dunno about religion but it's stupid how much better my putting and especially approaches got by using a single broken in dx 179 Rancho Roc exclusively. That coincided with form and grip changes and now I'm a happy camper. Since the winds really penalize non level trows I was overjoyed with finding out that new champ 12x Teebirds stay fadeless the entire flight on good rips. I carry stuff around as an insurance but I throw minimalistic for better scores than ever. But the environment and my hand injury do play a part in this Roc/TB craze that has me throwing these two molds for 90 % of the time. And the fact that the easiest place to play for me currently is the local pitch and putt course. Longer courses need more max golf D discs. And the stupidest winds force more Predator shots. Minimalism really does work for me and I'm not fully Rocced up yet because I've got three new Rocs or half Rocs waiting to be thrown once my coughing stops.

Minimalism doesn't usually add to the strokes but it can shave a few off. I'm way minimalistic now in actual usage but hauling stuff for special cases doesn't hurt at all even though I haven't used many discs for many rounds. And have even weirder stuff out of the bag that in theory could be useful like a 105 Wizard for getting D out of a bush with an inch of room to throw. No such bushes at the local pitch and putt... Last summer I didn't need it in my home course that is a jungle at places.