[Discraft] P McB Proto- THE KONG...er, um...THE ZEUS!

[EricMoul]

After another week of throwing these (rhbh throws), I'm not getting the overstability others are experiencing. The slightly domey one I have holds long flex lines coming out just at the end, and the flat one flips up and rides right before finishing almost center. It actually turned into a throwler when thown hyzer in a 15-20mph headwind. I didn't give it enough airspace, but regardless it wouldn't have fought out. My z Force flexed out of the same wind thrown with a slight anhyzer. I find the Force and Kong do not overlap at all, flying different lines.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Swapped out the Destroyers for Kongs 3 weeks ago and have been really enjoying the switch. I'm not seeing the crazy overstability that everyone else is seeing either. I got a stack of about 10 Kongs with varying levels of dome, and all fly pretty similar for me (RHBH). They flip up and drift a for a little before having a fairly forward fade around 450'. No where near the stability of a Force, which wants to start dumping out at 420-430'.

Kongs bomb :thmbup:

 

[Fly_High]

Just finished a field session with three different Kongs. One flat, one with slight dome and one pop top.

Dome definitely dictated stability one these. More dome = more overstable and it's quite a range. At my range (360-380 with ESP Surges on hyzerflips) the flat one would flip flat from a slight hyzer, ride a tick right and fade. The small dome would flip flap, hold and fade. The pop top would hold hyzer the whole way. They might have been 10-15' longer than my Surges on similar lines.

If I had to, I could switch to these but I'd need to see each disc before I bought it to check for dome and that's a nonstarter for me.

I can see the these beating in very nicely though. If I played more or had more time to work Kongs in I would consider bagging these. They are not some magical disc that's going to give you 50 extra feet of distance.

TL;DR The Kong is a solid disc and it's dome is a good tell on how stable it will be.

 

[Twmccoy]

Just finished a field session with three different Kongs. One flat, one with slight dome and one pop top.

Dome definitely dictated stability one these. More dome = more overstable and it's quite a range. At my range (360-380 with ESP Surges on hyzerflips) the flat one would flip flat from a slight hyzer, ride a tick right and fade. The small dome would flip flap, hold and fade. The pop top would hold hyzer the whole way. They might have been 10-15' longer than my Surges on similar lines.

If I had to, I could switch to these but I'd need to see each disc before I bought it to check for dome and that's a nonstarter for me. Not as much dumpy late fade either. Not as much dumpy late fade either.

I can see the these beating in very nicely though. If I played more or had more time to work Kongs in I would consider bagging these. They are not some magical disc that's going to give you 50 extra feet of distance.

TL;DR The Kong is a solid disc and it's dome is a good tell on how stable it will be.

I figure I could get 20-30' more out of a good Surge vs my Kong. The Surge glides better and holds the high speed turn much longer.

I fully agree that the Kong is not some magic distance disc. You'll have to earn every foot you get out of it.

 

[Silver Rider]

long story short... used to throw FR destroyers many years ago and the new ones werent the same, used outlaws for a while, but not the same, eventually settled on the most OS MVP octanes i could find and they were okay for a while.. but nothing like the KONG

i will be honest, i liked throwing MVP only but when i tried a Kong i was so impressed with the flight that i bought 2 and put them in my bag.

I had 30+ or so to pick from at the shop i was in and the dome didnt vary much on the ones i pulled, 3-4 of them had slightly higher dome but i wouldnt call it pop top and it was hardly a difference from the rest.. those are the ones i picked.

Anyways, in a head wind they didnt flip faster like my octanes, instead they slowly turned and drifted a little more before fading reliably.. in a tail wind they still held a line for a long time and didnt fade out early as i expected. Really impressed with how they handle wind way better than anything else i have tried. The flight in general is exactly what ive wanted for many years, so happy with these.. hoping they hold this stability for a long time and dont break in too fast.

 

[Twmccoy]

long story short... used to throw FR destroyers many years ago and the new ones werent the same, used outlaws for a while, but not the same, eventually settled on the most OS MVP octanes i could find and they were okay for a while.. but nothing like the KONG

i will be honest, i liked throwing MVP only but when i tried a Kong i was so impressed with the flight that i bought 2 and put them in my bag.

I had 30+ or so to pick from at the shop i was in and the dome didnt vary much on the ones i pulled, 3-4 of them had slightly higher dome but i wouldnt call it pop top and it was hardly a difference from the rest.. those are the ones i picked.

Anyways, in a head wind they didnt flip faster like my octanes, instead they slowly turned and drifted a little more before fading reliably.. in a tail wind they still held a line for a long time and didnt fade out early as i expected. Really impressed with how they handle wind way better than anything else i have tried. The flight in general is exactly what ive wanted for many years, so happy with these.. hoping they hold this stability for a long time and dont break in too fast.

I've thrown 2 Octanes, and both of them had noticeably more high speed turn than my Kong. The Octane was faster, longer, and had better glide.

I can lean into an Octane and flip it over. Not so with the Kong.

 

[Silver Rider]

I've thrown 2 Octanes, and both of them had noticeably more high speed turn than my Kong. The Octane was faster, longer, and had better glide.

I can lean into an Octane and flip it over. Not so with the Kong.

yea i agree with speed 13 octanes being faster (they dont make a speed 12 atm) and more high speed turn, they def flip over quickly into headwind so they are more release angle sensitive for me. I have not tested the distance side by side yet but i know i was driving the kong about 460' which is slightly less than my recent measures with the octane so the distance change isnt big for my arm speed, the slightly smaller rim on the kong actually feels a little better too.

The distance potential for me didnt seem "hard" like some have mentioned, if i didnt have the arm speed i might describe any high speed disc like that though.

The kong locks into a line longer and seems to have a stage where it just sails straight, more so than the Octane which has more lateral movement in its flight than the Kong.

Im having a lot of fun with the disc and its exactly what ive been looking for.

 

[slowplastic]

The distance potential for me didnt seem "hard" like some have mentioned, if i didnt have the arm speed i might describe any high speed disc like that though.

I've only tried one, but I don't have the power you do and I'm at elevation...so I'd agree with some others that it's not easy distance. It seemed pretty reliable in flight, but I can also throw a more OS disc on a similar line and have complete wind resistance. Not that I think the Kong would be bad in the wind, just I don't think I have the arm speed to make it glide/hold right, so if it's going to act stable for me I'd rather throw something more stable.

I do think if I had another 50' it could be a very different story.

 

[tomsdiscs]

Kong being renamed Forrest Gump

I am changing the name Kong to Forrest Gump, because it "is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get".

Obviously true based on appearance, but also on flight.

I started out with a mild dome one, had decent stability, could be thrown into a moderate headwind, and I do not mean just on day 1, but held up after a month of play, etc. Stable disc, not setting any distance records with it...

But I kept reading reviews saying the flat ones were flippier, so tried one and it was true, the flat one I got is significantly flippier, not good for headwinds, and flips up pretty easily. Longer than the mild dome one.

As the weeks go by and they start to season, they are getting longer, but my Destroyers and Bosses are still faster and longer, but the gap is starting to narrow.

The ESP plastic used on the Kong (I mean Forrest Gump) is a denser, more rubbery type of plastic, which I do like, and think it has advantages for high speed driver control/placement shots, but at the margin not sure it will be as glidy as some of the Innova Star plastic runs (which you already know vary greatly over time).

I do not recommend the Kong (Forrest Gump) for beginners, the new Ricky Destroyers would be a lot easier for a new player to throw and progress with.

Knowing how much the flights and stability vary on this new disc from Discraft/McBeth, it is quite a risk ordering them online because in most cases you will not know how flat or domey it is, and also the marked weight on these discs is varying over/under by a couple grams on many of them, and that is not only based on the discs I have received but by reviewing sites that list marked and actual weight.

The prices for production runs need to come down, this is not a must have, game changer disc for most players, so needs to come down in price on the production runs, especially since the stability and weights vary, you should not be out $ 20+ for a disc that did not meet your expectations.

I have always thought that to sell discs, they need to look good just as much as perform well, and you can see this trend in the new ESP runs from Discraft and the cool pearly Z on the Raptors, etc. Pretty sad that Innova who really got us rolling with the sweet looking and performing swirly runs on the early Brinster Destroyers, etc, have lost their way lately, the lastest Nybo Teebirds, Barsby Eagles, Discmania Swirl runs, etc. are not really cutting it.

Maybe we can talk Discraft into letting Innova use some of their newer ESP and Z plastic for Teebirds, Destroyers, Bosses, etc ???

 

[Silver Rider]

Good to know these hold up well over time.

I believe i have the "moderate" dome ones, they fly exactly as the numbers suggest.

Took them out today again for a field test at my usual spot and i am actually getting these just as far as the speed 13 octanes they replaced and more accurately to boot, max drives were about 470' according to udisc. this is certainly a disc that is developed for more experienced disc golfers, the HSS isnt going to help you get distance and neither is the glide, but for a disc golfer with more developed power this is what makes the disc reliable in my opinion, its a good balance of both.

As for price, $20 is a lot for a piece of plastic i agree, but if you go into it knowing its a "McBeth" stamped disc and you are paying more to support him by buying the disc then it makes sense. Personally i like McBeth and think he represents the sport well, i dont have a problem supporting him and am happy to do so.

Very impressed with Discraft plastic quality and consistency, considering i found 2 discs that fly identical in 2 different colors!

 

[slowplastic]

this is certainly a disc that is developed for more experienced disc golfers, the HSS isnt going to help you get distance and neither is the glide, but for a disc golfer with more developed power this is what makes the disc reliable in my opinion, its a good balance of both.

Yeah I fully agree with that...certain discs aren't made to get you easy distance, but if you already are able to throw that distance it will handle that line with reliability and trust. I can throw putters/mids/fairways that have that combination of stability and moderate glide for lots of lines and uses, but I am not there with speed 12+ drivers of the same style for workhorse use. I can tell that the Kong should wake up after a certain velocity.

 

[texasissouth]

Threw a flatish Kong the other day alongside a gamut of other drivers, included a slightly worked in Z Force. Throwing them about 400' the worked in Force actually felt easier to throw and slightly longer, neither had really any turn at 400 on slight hyzer.

 

[Titan037]

Good to know these hold up well over time.

I believe i have the "moderate" dome ones, they fly exactly as the numbers suggest.

Took them out today again for a field test at my usual spot and i am actually getting these just as far as the speed 13 octanes they replaced and more accurately to boot, max drives were about 470' according to udisc. this is certainly a disc that is developed for more experienced disc golfers, the HSS isnt going to help you get distance and neither is the glide, but for a disc golfer with more developed power this is what makes the disc reliable in my opinion, its a good balance of both.

As for price, $20 is a lot for a piece of plastic i agree, but if you go into it knowing its a "McBeth" stamped disc and you are paying more to support him by buying the disc then it makes sense. Personally i like McBeth and think he represents the sport well, i dont have a problem supporting him and am happy to do so.

Very impressed with Discraft plastic quality and consistency, considering i found 2 discs that fly identical in 2 different colors!

Keep in mind esp is generally 17-18 anyway so you're really not paying that much more for the kong

 

[Lumberjack504]

My finding with the Kong is similar to what a lot of y'all are saying. I have a sample size of only one, but it's pretty flat and pretty clunky flying honestly. I wouldn't call it a meat hook either, it's a weird combination of fast, low glide, high HSS but not a ton of LSS. Don't get me wrong, it fades, but not as much as more overstable discs that are equally resistant to flipping up that fly a similar distance. If that makes sense... For reference I max around 400 but generally throw my distance drivers in the 370-380 range.

TL;DR - for me the Kong is clunky and doesn't fit in the bag. I can probably throw a beefier PD or worked in FB on similar lines and distances, or throw worked in destroyers/fresh wraiths on similar lines but noticeably farther.

 

[Twmccoy]

My finding with the Kong is similar to what a lot of y'all are saying. I have a sample size of only one, but it's pretty flat and pretty clunky flying honestly. I wouldn't call it a meat hook either, it's a weird combination of fast, low glide, high HSS but not a ton of LSS. Don't get me wrong, it fades, but not as much as more overstable discs that are equally resistant to flipping up that fly a similar distance. If that makes sense... For reference I max around 400 but generally throw my distance drivers in the 370-380 range.

TL;DR - for me the Kong is clunky and doesn't fit in the bag. I can probably throw a beefier PD or worked in FB on similar lines and distances, or throw worked in destroyers/fresh wraiths on similar lines but noticeably farther.

I'd agree with all of this. My Kong doesn't like to fly flat. It wants to fade quickly. Most of the distance I do get with it is a prolonged fade. My Kong is absolutely clunky, and the Destroyer I threw it next to seemed faster and would penetrate better on lower lines.

Simply put, I don't have the armspeed for my Kong. I'm sure there are other, flippier ones out there. However, mine is pretty damn beefy.

I was getting my Kong around 400' on occasion, but it took everything I had. The disc doesn't help you at all on distance. No superior glide or penetration. The one saving grace is that it actually gets a lot of distance out of that prolonged fade.

 

[Sydex]

In reading through these, and tossing a few, I have come to the conclusion that that Kong is going to be another Destroyer type disc in terms of inconsistency.

The ones I have are all 172 (weighed myself) and are actually a joy to throw. But many people here are saying otherwise. Mine have been similar to G* Destroyers (favorite and most distance destroyer for me) to where I don't feel I'm putting too much into them and hitting 400' - 425' flat lines. Maybe I lucked out. Compared to my Rickstroyer they're not as beefy, my 4x Destroyers are even beefier still.

It's unfortunate, that these are inconsistently molded. But understandable with the number I'm sure they're turning out. I'm curious when these will not be protos and how they'll change it up.

 

[Silver Rider]

In reading through these, and tossing a few, I have come to the conclusion that that Kong is going to be another Destroyer type disc in terms of inconsistency.

The ones I have are all 172 (weighed myself) and are actually a joy to throw. But many people here are saying otherwise. Mine have been similar to G* Destroyers (favorite and most distance destroyer for me) to where I don't feel I'm putting too much into them and hitting 400' - 425' flat lines. Maybe I lucked out. Compared to my Rickstroyer they're not as beefy, my 4x Destroyers are even beefier still.

It's unfortunate, that these are inconsistently molded. But understandable with the number I'm sure they're turning out. I'm curious when these will not be protos and how they'll change it up.

mine are the same weight and just like you described in flight, do you know if the dome on yours is in the median? I know mine are but when i compared 15-20 of them at a shop they didn't vary much at all, like maybe a 1mm difference at most, hard to beleive the flight of all those would vary as drastically as i read on here.

I attribute alot of it to different skill levels, styles, and even the wind conditions people test these in, elevation differences, very hot/cold climates, etc, etc.. so many factors change the flight! even one persons throw style may put more spin on the disc than another person.. etc its really a joke sifting through forum reviews because everyone will obviously have a different result, that's just the nature of it. Not saying the discs dont have much variation though, they do for sure but, you combine a "domey" one with someone who has only 400' of power and then their description becomes WAY different than, mine or yours may be with a slight dome difference at 470' i may just notice slightly less flip durring the flight and 10' less distance than my other Kongs, for example.

When i look at the destroyers my shop has in stock i see massive dome and PLH differences, im talking like commonly up to 2mm+ differences, even the shape of the wing curve varies within the same stack.. its real bad, but theres way more runs of destroyers out there so who knows what Kong variation will look like 2-3 runs from now in comparison.

I agree there is inconsistency in the Kong but the ones i compared varied within expected tolerances, its possible people before me picked out all the extra domey/flat ones though!

i found two that were absolutely perfectly identical in flight, dome and plh but different colors, that was also impressive to me

 

[Twmccoy]

I gave my Kong some more throws today. I can get it to 400', but not reliably. To do so I have to anny it high and pretty much as hard and with a severe angle. Its the kind of anny that would make something like a Katana dive into the ground.

If I throw the Kong flat it will listlessly hyzer out and die at about 360'. To get that extra 40' I pretty much have to force the disc over. It isn't a really natural type throw.

Beastly overstable. I still don't think it penetrates that well.

 

[Sydex]

mine are the same weight and just like you described in flight, do you know if the dome on yours is in the median? I know mine are but when i compared 15-20 of them at a shop they didn't vary much at all, like maybe a 1mm difference at most, hard to beleive the flight of all those would vary as drastically as i read on here.

I attribute alot of it to different skill levels, styles, and even the wind conditions people test these in, elevation differences, very hot/cold climates, etc, etc.. so many factors change the flight! even one persons throw style may put more spin on the disc than another person.. etc its really a joke sifting through forum reviews because everyone will obviously have a different result, that's just the nature of it. Not saying the discs dont have much variation though, they do for sure but, you combine a "domey" one with someone who has only 400' of power and then their description becomes WAY different than, mine or yours may be with a slight dome difference at 470' i may just notice slightly less flip durring the flight and 10' less distance than my other Kongs, for example.

When i look at the destroyers my shop has in stock i see massive dome and PLH differences, im talking like commonly up to 2mm+ differences, even the shape of the wing curve varies within the same stack.. its real bad, but theres way more runs of destroyers out there so who knows what Kong variation will look like 2-3 runs from now in comparison.

I agree there is inconsistency in the Kong but the ones i compared varied within expected tolerances, its possible people before me picked out all the extra domey/flat ones though!

i found two that were absolutely perfectly identical in flight, dome and plh but different colors, that was also impressive to me

All very true, but in my experience they don't vary wildly. As in, one disc will be super flippy for one and super stable for another, all things relatively comparable (arm speed, etc . . . )

Mine are all flat and identical PLH.

 

[Jkosk]

Outside of my initial impressions, I have generally kept quiet as I have been putting the mold through the paces.

I have been bagging 2 flatties and 2 domey kongs right now in lieu of my Trespasses and for my power range (400' in an open field, Ned) I can say this:

Trespasses, on a big, wide open max distance line, do fly a bit further than the fresh Kongs. My first initial thoughts were that the Kongs were going a bit further, but as I have been getting back into form and started hitting my lines a bit better, I know this isn't quite the case. Trespasses simply flex out so easily that I can really maximize the glide and flight if I am facing a wide open field. But I can crank a beat up nuke or cannon further than a trespass if I have infinite space to unleash on. but that obviously is pointless on the course.

That being said, the flat Kongs are equally as long on any golf lines, while being generally safer, more predictable, and more trustworthy in any sort of windy conditions. I always had to hyzer-flip my Trespasses in order to keep them on a tighter line, where as I can just really lean on a Kong on a flat rip and it will gently track right with a reliable finish. They don't want to hustle to the ground, they penetrate forward quite well. I certainly believe these will really season in nicely and if they become a bit more glidey, they should have no real problem surpassing my trespass' distance thresholds on golf lines or in an open field.

I generally only throw the flatties and reach for the domey ones into headwinds, but with that being said the Domey guys are certainly more HSS, but not unthrowably so. I can still get some good distance on a solid, slightly anhyzer rip. A flat rip will stay flat and have a healthy fade. Potential here to remove the Forces from the bag BUT I haven't had any real gusty conditions where I normally lean on my Forces, and I suspect the Force will stay right where it is.

So there it is. I find it to be a reliable mold that will be able to unlock more potential out of as I season it in. I don't find it to be clunky, stubborn, or pigish. I find it to be quite workable and versatile with great distance potential that should season very well.

I'm going to roll with the Kongs for the foreseeable future and see how they season up, and then I might swap back to the Trespass about mid-summer as a system shock to really see how I feel about it before I decide which mold I stick with.

 

[Silver Rider]

while being generally safer, more predictable, and more trustworthy in any sort of windy conditions. I always had to hyzer-flip my Trespasses in order to keep them on a tighter line, where as I can just really lean on a Kong on a flat rip and it will gently track right with a reliable finish. They don't want to hustle to the ground, they penetrate forward quite well.

couldn't agree more, after throwing Kongs for a few weeks now and many rounds they really inspire confidence in long drives, its max distance but controllable.

For reference, i picked slightly more domey ones at the shop, but honestly wouldn't call them "domey", they don't have that pop top "heartbeat".

anyways, they aren't as effected by wind as other molds i've tried either, and frankly it amazes me and its what sold me on them immediately. They also arent very release angle sensitive, they kind of "drift" a little but its never a flip motion that you have to be careful with, they lock into the line you put them on.

The Envy was a game changer for me and i feel the same way about the Kong, locked in the bag.