Paul Ulibarri: The Pump

[Migia]

Hello everyone!

A rookie Disc Golfer here. First I'd like to share my gratitude for all the quality material you've accumulated over the years. Going through most of it (why yes, I am rather obsessed with the fine art of handling a disc) has taught me how and why the disc should be thrown.

Today, after yet another frustrating field work session I happened to watch Paul Ulibarri's latest video on YT, and something sort of clicked. After playing with the motion indoors it feels very smooth & natural like it really syncs up your upper and lower body. Or keeps you from messing it up, however you want to look at it.

In here, 6:17 to about 9:00 in, he explains the pump and it's significance. https://youtu.be/32fiQcfNbSs?t=377

He also talks about anticipating your next step. And so pumping around the house, trying different angles and speeds, I sort of just realized I was anticipating the brace with my butt! Wanna know what that feels like? Yep, you guessed it. Just like sitting down! Another wise teaching I can only now truly appreciate.

A well anticipated butt action combined with a rhytmic pump seemed to fix my run-up form in an instant, which I guess is mostly if not only about balance. Felt smooth yet powerful. It was as if my body cried out loud "Finally he gets it!" Just so it happens I recorded a few of my throws today and, well... let's just say I waste alot of momentum. Gonna have a field day tomorrow aswell and see if this late Saturday night epiphany actually translates to a throw or not. I'll be sure to share the comparison if I go from a 6-month rookie to a smooth bomber overnight.

 

[txmxer]

Slow is smooth. Smooth is far.

I made that up.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Slow is smooth. Smooth is far.

I made that up.

Pretty sure I was there when you first said it.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[Migia]

Yes! The feeling was precisely like the captions describe. Gotta find me a hammer to really solidify the rhythm. I imagine a heavier object will help find the doorframe feeling aswell.

 

[Brychanus]

Thanks for posting this! I think it was really healthy for people to see this, I saw people talk about it on Reddit too - it's like there are these things in form people don't notice or need to rediscover to realize that the "pendulum system" and "walk past the disc" need to recruit the same fundamental body movements to work.

It's especially interesting to me because you see less "full pumps" w/ the elbow and wrist extending these days, but I learned a lot doing that too. Once I figured that out the "walk past the disc" tempo and posture started to feel easier.

It's also really fun to see the player encountering it for the first time and how tough it looks and feels for his body. But you can learn it. How is Ulibarri teaching it? Why, with drills and reps without a disc at first! Hang in there, we're all working on something!

 

[Migia]

Thanks for posting this! I think it was really healthy for people to see this, I saw people talk about it on Reddit too - it's like there are these things in form people don't notice or need to rediscover to realize that the "pendulum system" and "walk past the disc" need to recruit the same fundamental body movements to work.

It's especially interesting to me because you see less "full pumps" w/ the elbow and wrist extending these days, but I learned a lot doing that too. Once I figured that out the "walk past the disc" tempo and posture started to feel easier.

It's also really fun to see the player encountering it for the first time and how tough it looks and feels for his body. But you can learn it. How is Ulibarri teaching it? Why, with drills and reps without a disc at first! Hang in there, we're all working on something!

Amen. And the movements are indeed fundamental! Basically it's just like walking or any other motion you're using all 4 limbs for, the body seems to work in perfect unison, countering and balancing while moving through space.

It seems and feels to me that the lead leg and rear arm are linked & synced during the whole run up and not just when preparing to brace. Here's the Beast throwing a Buzz during fieldwork. Check out the synchronized action of this x-step where as the lead leg lightly slides off the ground the left hand draws a small circle in the air. And it also looks like he's "reaching back" with the hand stretching away from his center of gravity untill (The way it looks watching frame by frame is the very moment the front toes cant get away from the CoG anymore, the left hand shoots in.) it's time to bring the fireworks in and compress. Now all of this might just be a fancy way of talking about being relaxed, but hey, let's dive in

EDIT: I don't seem to know my way around a forum. Here's a link instead https://youtu.be/o_uBSYd5goc?t=87
1:27 to 1:30, go slow mo

Ofcourse none of this is new or useful information in and of itself, but as an underlying notion or an understanding might be something helpful. I like to conceptualize the run-up as an intent to generate and manipulate momentum. Buzzwords like visualization, mind muscle connection and interoception (which means the perception of sensations from inside the body) come to mind, but it's better to keep things simpler than that. It's just intent and focus, and these two along with deep rest are the key to learning anything.

If anyone is interested in learning, check out Andrew Huberman's podcast. He's a professor of neurobiology at Stanford with alot of expertise on the matter of learning, among many other things.

And finally back to Ulibarri. It's fun and helpful, Brychanus! And there just might be some added benefit of having a student while teaching and demonstrating? That might be a key factor for my sudden "awakening". Any chance at all for a SW22 live teaching video?

 

[gwsmallwood]

A well anticipated butt action combined with a rhytmic pump

Um, we're still talking about Disc Golf, right?

 

[Frisbee-Hanski]

An interesting topic! It brought to my mind this video:

 

[BraceDisgrace]

Uli talks about not linking the pump to the plant-leg (right leg in his case) and I guess that makes sense in theory. But I feel super awkward thinking about syncing it with my left leg during the x-step. In my head the pump follows the momentum as it passes over my right leg.

If you watch this clip you can either focus on Paul pumping in sync with his left leg x-stepping and you'd be right. But you can also focus on the fact that the pump is linked to his momentum passing over his right foot - and still be right.

So I guess that whichever of these mental cues help you with the timing shouldn't matter because they produce the same end-result.
https://youtu.be/m8E3kCqtKzU?t=74

An interesting topic! It brought to my mind this video:

Yeah, I feel like HUB is using his pump more akin to my own preference here.

 

[axion]

This video always gets me. I pump the disc with my left foot. I do not think about my right foot really. Yet, my friend who has pro distance always tells me his lead foot `makes him tall` so he can `land like a pitcher on a mound` and i really hate him for having feelings I dont Because every time he says it, I can only really hear seb and hyzer and they are laughing at me over the internet.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

This video always gets me. I pump the disc with my left foot. I do not think about my right foot really. Yet, my friend who has pro distance always tells me his lead foot `makes him tall` so he can `land like a pitcher on a mound` and i really hate him for having feelings I dont Because every time he says it, I can only really hear seb and hyzer and they are laughing at me over the internet.

I promise... I'm never laughing at you.

 

[lee76007]

An interesting topic! It brought to my mind this video:

I brought the pump to the practice field this morning, and it felt great. I can feel the weight shifting with the pump, greater momentum, and much better follow thru. More distance and control on some disc, need work on others.

 

[Brychanus]

And there just might be some added benefit of having a student while teaching and demonstrating? That might be a key factor for my sudden "awakening". Any chance at all for a SW22 live teaching video?

This probably can matter a lot. Like Ulibarri is doing with his student, some of my fastest learning in dance when I get stuck is when my dance instructor "backleads" the motion to force my body into the right posture, sequence, balance, and momentum. This is analogous to DG since it involves developing a lot of movement and control with your eyes "off the target"/off the line of dance. The backlead can help you to force your body to "click" the movement into a cohesive unit. After that you can't imagine moving any other way.

Learning martial arts was a little different because I'd usually be hitting something/interacting with a hostile body, so the feedback is constantly there with respect to the target, and the consequences of subtly poor movements came fast (stumbling/falling, self-injury, getting hit).

The DG BH is this strange thing since it's "dance-like" but without a partner, "martial arts-like" but without a physical target to hit, and "baseball-like" but your eyes come off the target. Of course, there's a target to aim at out there, but the DG "hit" is at the end of your own kinematic chain, and the object (disc) is connected to you up until that point. It's really weird.

I've now read a lot of other players' form reviews here, and it's really clear that a "one size fits all" troubleshooting procedure is probably a fools' errand. While I do think you can try to "sequence" the swing development to help people organize some concepts, players have all kinds of different breaks in posture, sequencing, balance, etc. that require individualized solutions and often suprising amounts of trial & error by the coach & player. And the distance between where you are and where you want to go can be highly unpredictable & nonlinear.

SW22 has an impressive ability to "backlead" people even when he's not physically there. A live session would be cool too!

 

[Tinkles]

While doing this drill your hips seem to turn more than pros do, approaching a walking backwards with your rear foot pointing away from target. Pros seem to do more of a slide/rock of hips without closing them as much.

I've been trying to correct my own over turning which I feel like results in more of a spin rather than a shift and brace. What am I missing?

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Slow is smooth. Smooth is far.

I made that up.

btw This phrase has been used ever since Napoleon was alive.

 

[sidewinder22]

While doing this drill your hips seem to turn more than pros do, approaching a walking backwards with your rear foot pointing away from target. Pros seem to do more of a slide/rock of hips without closing them as much.

I've been trying to correct my own over turning which I feel like results in more of a spin rather than a shift and brace. What am I missing?

You are probably missing the loading.

 

[Tinkles]

You are probably missing the loading.

Ok I was looking more at the freeze frame at the 1:18 mark if your video. In looking at Simon and Paul it doesn't seem they're buts really gave the target. It seems more like the max turn back they make is aligned with the pic you posted above. Guessing maybe the video exaggerates that part but wasn't sure and wanted your thoughts.

 

[Brychanus]

Ok I was looking more at the freeze frame at the 1:18 mark if your video. In looking at Simon and Paul it doesn't seem they're buts really gave the target. It seems more like the max turn back they make is aligned with the pic you posted above. Guessing maybe the video exaggerates that part but wasn't sure and wanted your thoughts.

Keep in mind that relative camera angles/parallax and anatomy can make mislead you & make minor differences appear large, especially in still frames. Remember that even our hips hang in the sockets at different angles, so the ideal leverage position is different from person to person.

Regarding the "butt" angle, see this grab of Gibson. Notice that his relative butt angle changes with the intended power in the throw. The more "fully loaded" his throw is, the more the butt will tend to "aim" somewhere closer to the line of play. It differs by pro (Simon's is a little shallower than Gibson, at least in the Overthrow montage), but I think in general a lot of us have trouble learning (1) to stay leveraged between the feet into the plant crush and (2) get comfortable letting the buttwipe/full bow load with shoulder behind rear hip/CoG sling lead the swing.

 

[Tinkles]

Keep in mind that relative camera angles/parallax and anatomy can make mislead you & make minor differences appear large, especially in still frames. Remember that even our hips hang in the sockets at different angles, so the ideal leverage position is different from person to person.

Regarding the "butt" angle, see this grab of Gibson. Notice that his relative butt angle changes with the intended power in the throw. The more "fully loaded" his throw is, the more the butt will tend to "aim" somewhere closer to the line of play. It differs by pro (Simon's is a little shallower than Gibson, at least in the Overthrow montage), but I think in general a lot of us have trouble learning (1) to stay leveraged between the feet into the plant crush and (2) get comfortable letting the buttwipe/full bow load with shoulder behind rear hip/CoG sling lead the swing.

I get what you are saying and was wondering if that was the case.

Love those videos but I wish they had included an intended line. The 450' flat throw looks like a shank/yank relative to his other flat throws. If they put in an intended line it would be easier to know for sure because it makes me wonder if we're looking at his intended line or a yank.