PDGA ratings are up. How'd you do?

[ScottyLove]

Incorrect. Played in a tourney in 2017, shot the same score both rounds, first round was 864, second was 925.

Link to tournament please... I chart every round before and after official ratings and I've NEVER seen them not averaged even when they shouldn't be... like Round 1 of GBO with 45 MPH gusts and Round 3 GBO with no wind on the same course... PDGA averaged the round and same score got same rating.

I'd love to see a link to a tournament that didn't. My rating changes EVERY time unless the layout is NOT used again.

 

[F. Howl]

Tell me more about that...

For shotgun starts, inclement weather and conditions are automatically considered because the propagators are playing the same round at the same time you are.

For tee times, if the TD reports to the PDGA of weather changes, and they sometimes take that into account. The exact formula? No idea.

 

[roggenb3]

Link to tournament please... I chart every round before and after official ratings and I've NEVER seen them not averaged even when they shouldn't be... like Round 1 of GBO with 45 MPH gusts and Round 3 GBO with no wind on the same course... PDGA averaged the round and same score got same rating.

I'd love to see a link to a tournament that didn't. My rating changes EVERY time unless the layout is NOT used again.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Are you saying that if there's a tournament with the exact same layout both rounds, and you shoot the same score each round, you are guaranteed the same rating for each round? Because that's not how it works.

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/39959

Look at rec, which played the same layout. Great weather round 1, rain and a 1 hour rain delay in round 2. 59 was a 776 in round 1 and an 884 in round 2. Over 100 point difference due to the weather.

 

[Hampstead]

I have played many tournaments where same score is rated differently between first and second round. I think someone is spreading bad info.

 

[krupicka]

I have played many tournaments where same score is rated differently between first and second round. I think someone is spreading bad info.

That will almost always happen when you look at Unofficial ratings. When events go official. If the TD marked the same layout in use for both rounds, then unless they are something like 2.5SD different (or something like that) the rounds will be combined and produce the same rating for both rounds.

 

[TimSyl]

Link to tournament please... I chart every round before and after official ratings and I've NEVER seen them not averaged even when they shouldn't be... like Round 1 of GBO with 45 MPH gusts and Round 3 GBO with no wind on the same course... PDGA averaged the round and same score got same rating.

I'd love to see a link to a tournament that didn't. My rating changes EVERY time unless the layout is NOT used again.

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/30869

 

[roggenb3]

That will almost always happen when you look at Unofficial ratings. When events go official. If the TD marked the same layout in use for both rounds, then unless they are something like 2.5SD different (or something like that) the rounds will be combined and produce the same rating for both rounds.

The one I linked above is official though and still has 100+ difference.

 

[ToddL]

If the two rounds are significantly different for whatever reason (weather, fatigue, random chance), then the rounds might not be combined into a single rating scale for the official ratings. This is pretty rare, but it can happen occasionally.

 

[Golden Tuna]

That will almost always happen when you look at Unofficial ratings. When events go official. If the TD marked the same layout in use for both rounds, then unless they are something like 2.5SD different (or something like that) the rounds will be combined and produce the same rating for both rounds.

The one I linked above is official though and still has 100+ difference.

If the two rounds are significantly different for whatever reason (weather, fatigue, random chance), then the rounds might not be combined into a single rating scale for the official ratings. This is pretty rare, but it can happen occasionally.

At what point do the rounds/rating become official? I see that the event is still listed with "unofficial results" on PDGA.

 

[ToddL]

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/39959

Look at rec, which played the same layout. Great weather round 1, rain and a 1 hour rain delay in round 2. 59 was a 776 in round 1 and an 884 in round 2. Over 100 point difference due to the weather.

That tournament used different layout for R1 vs R2. The ratings can't be combined.

 

[biscoe]

At what point do the rounds/rating become official? I see that the event is still listed with "unofficial results" on PDGA.

second tuesday of each month i believe.

 

[krupicka]

Ratings go official after
a) the TD report is complete and submitted
b) fees are paid
c) Monthly update is complete (see https://www.pdga.com/faq/ratings)

 

[Golden Tuna]

second tuesday of each month i believe.

Ratings go official after
a) the TD report is complete and submitted
b) fees are paid
c) Monthly update is complete (see https://www.pdga.com/faq/ratings)

Thanks guys,
I appreciate the education!

 

[Hank Scorpio]

Mind blown. I always assumed ratings would be round by round, but can't find a single example in MY tournament history where the same score has been rated differently on the same course. Regardless of conditions or day of round.

 

[bwgort]

Mind blown. I always assumed ratings would be round by round, but can't find a single example in MY tournament history where the same score has been rated differently on the same course. Regardless of conditions or day of round.

Typically, they are averaged but there are definitely tournaments where each round is separate because of the reasons Krupicka stated above. See https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/16382#MPO


Another interesting thing that happens sometimes is that players who play shorter teepads end up with higher rated rounds (they can of course be lower as well but higher is kinda silly). See https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/36590#MPO

Advanced played a 400 ft shorter course than Pro and got better round ratings.

 

[ScottyLove]

Mind blown. I always assumed ratings would be round by round, but can't find a single example in MY tournament history where the same score has been rated differently on the same course. Regardless of conditions or day of round.

Correct... same here... and even when they should NOT be. Like I said, 45 mph winds and 0 mph winds should qualify as drasticly different condition, but alas these rounds were average. That's lazy TD work in my opinion.

So as Todd stated, if they are NOT averaged, it means the TD submitted a different layout or conditions.

 

[krupicka]

Mathematically it mostly doesn't matter.
Say I shoot 60 both rounds. Round 1 it's rated 880, Round 2 it's rated 920.
If they are averaged together it's rated 900. So regardless if the PDGA rates them together or not, the impact on my overall rating doesn't change. If it was my first event, I'd be rated 900 either way.

Where it does matter is
a) if the double weighting of rounds dips only halfway into an event. In one case, the algorithm would double weight the 920, the other it would double weight a 900 rated round
b) if one round was rated low enough that it would be dropped. So if I was rated 981, the 880 would be dropped, but a 900 might not.
c) ego

 

[roggenb3]

So to be clear, when people are saying "the TD entered a different layout"....does it count as a different layout if only some divisions are playing a different layout?

Almost every event I play in has Rec and Int playing the same course both rounds, while Adv and Open play short/long. And the scores are never averaged.

Shouldn't they be for rec and int? Or does everyone need to play the same layout?

 

[krupicka]

For each division each round, the TD puts in a layout code for the layout played by that division for that round. That may be the same or different between divisions in a round and it may be same or different between rounds for a division. There are times where a TD entered a different layout code for each round so that the rounds are not averaged together.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Its common around here to make one hole slightly different(either splitting long/short tee or long/short basket) for divisions intentionally so that the MPO scores/ratings wont be affected by the int/rec/novice scores. Of course they say its really for "flow" and to try to keep a backup from forming but its rather obvious sometimes that its really for the ratings.