PDGA Website Scoring no longer requires players to sign their scorecard

[dmoore1998]

Thanks for posting all of this!

Users should be notified of changes to the live scoring app with the reasons why.

Or the PDGA can just wait for this forum's users to explain why.

Would it be nice? Yes. Are you likely to get an honest answer? Probably not in cases where it was budget or time related.

Having done quite a bit of work in this space, the answer is often "we didn't care about that feature much and the development team said it was a pain, so we scrapped it". Nobody is going to say that to the public for obvious reasons though. I can certainly imagine a scenario here where they had the confirmation of score, and whatever code existed for that became a pain when they opened up scoring on the same card for multiple users. I can easily imagine a testing scenario where now everyone keeping score has to do a confirmation of everyone on the card or it won't submit (or something similarly annoying) and them just saying "it's not technically a rule of ours, just scrap it because it isn't worth it".

 

[ru4por]

Would it be nice? Yes. Are you likely to get an honest answer? Probably not in cases where it was budget or time related.

Having done quite a bit of work in this space, the answer is often "we didn't care about that feature much and the development team said it was a pain, so we scrapped it". Nobody is going to say that to the public for obvious reasons though. I can certainly imagine a scenario here where they had the confirmation of score, and whatever code existed for that became a pain when they opened up scoring on the same card for multiple users. I can easily imagine a testing scenario where now everyone keeping score has to do a confirmation of everyone on the card or it won't submit (or something similarly annoying) and them just saying "it's not technically a rule of ours, just scrap it because it isn't worth it".

Now you are just bashing the PDGA with pure speculation, platforming the supposition with claims of "industry knowledge".

Let me give that a try. You are a long time PDGA member and have been on the short end of a rules decision, that cost you a world championship. I have been in many tournament and know how this goes.

Developing, building, testing and rolling out the above functionality would not be costly nor time consuming. I am sure you know that.

 

[araytx]

The next time the PDGA makes a change like this, they should publish the reason for the change.

uh, NO. I disagree because imho, it's not necessary. If you, as an individual want to know, Mike Krupicka has been the most available and responsive RC head I've known in my 15+ years. Just message him to get YOUR answer.

Again the PDGA is a players-driven organization, not some hands-off bureaucracy. As a player you'll be responded to.

No it doesn't, even in this small group we've now heard multiple instances of scores being submitted without affording players an opportunity to review the card.

Again, all of which could/would likely happen with the same scorekeeper on paper pencil. If he/she isn't allowing players to review their electronic scorecard (assuming it is the only one and the other players didn't take their opportunity to keep it themselves), then that same score keeper is probably not allowing you to review the paper one either. I just don't see a difference. Other than, what many have pointed out which is, if more than one player keeps electronic it CAN'T be submitted until all discrepancies are resolved.

Would it be nice? Yes. Are you likely to get an honest answer? Probably not in cases where it was budget or time related.

Having done quite a bit of work in this space, the answer is often "we didn't care about that feature much and the development team said it was a pain, so we scrapped it". Nobody is going to say that to the public for obvious reasons though. I can certainly imagine a scenario here where they had the confirmation of score, and whatever code existed for that became a pain when they opened up scoring on the same card for multiple users. I can easily imagine a testing scenario where now everyone keeping score has to do a confirmation of everyone on the card or it won't submit (or something similarly annoying) and them just saying "it's not technically a rule of ours, just scrap it because it isn't worth it".

Are you the one who changed the PDGA app? If not, then it's not a "we" or "us". Someone changed it, it wasn't me.

My bar for the PDGA is pretty low. In this case, I'm just saying "don't make a change that makes things worse when anyone who spends 5 seconds thinking about it and who has connected brain cells will clearly know it is worse". Change to IMPROVE things can take time, it takes resources, etc. Simply leaving things as they are without making changes to make things worse doesn't typically require that. It just requires some common sense and a willingness to use your brain.

Paper vs app I don't necessarily care all that much about...it would be irrelevant completely to me if they had a simple rule that golf has had for a very long time which works...players must positively assent to their score being accurate. The app did that...at which point they decided "makes too much sense, better make the process worse" for some unfathomable reason.

I've already provided a solution. They need to hire someone with a basic understanding of logic, language, and procedural writing.

Actually, you're hit the nail on the head. The PDGA wants people of "esteem" rather than people who are good at their jobs. Different strokes for different folks I guess. You think esteem is important, I think competence at the job is important.

Good history of the rule. I do think consistency is important...I'd just always rather see inconsistencies corrected by updating the poor method to the better method, rather than downgrading the better method to match the poor.

dmoore, you can say "no" all you want to; Saying that doesn't make it a fact, it doesn't make it so. Just like those who say the lunar landing never happened or that masks worn properly don't lessen the exposure to COVID-19 or that Texas is still a country or there is evidence that the Presidential election was "stolen." Merely saying something doesn't make it true.

Clearly there are others (see below for one example) who in their opinion (see what I did there), disagree with your position. It doesn't mean we "don't have the ability to use some common sense and a willingness to use our brains," or "the PDGA hasn't hired someone with a basic understanding of logic, language, and procedural writing," or that some of us think "competence is less important than esteem" as you have implied in the examples above.

In every PDGA tourney round I have played, going back 15 years, all the players have confirmed their scores before we turned in the card. That happened with paper and it is happening with the app. Idk if my region or division or age or what has caused this, but I have never had the experience of a card being turned it without everyone looking at it and agreeing to his score.

In these last couple of years with the app and a UDisc or paper backup, we all double-checked both and submitted it on the PDGA app. Now with the ability for more than one player on the card to use the PDGA app throughout the round, the process goes even faster. But every round I have played, all the players still gathered around and reviewed and agreed to the scores before they were submitted.

Yes, I like this system better.

It also eliminates the "you or your card mate added up your score and got 58, but the TD double-checked it and you got 59, so now you get 59 plus a penalty" phenomenon.

And somewhat conspicuously is no dmoore comment to WD above.