Pet Peeve: foot fault run ups

[krupicka]

That proposal was not meant to disallow run-ups, but to provide a reasonable stance rule that
a) does not cause injury
b) simple to state and understand
c) allows for easy verification of adherence to the rules
It also disallows jump-putts which are difficult to accurately assess for legality.

I took stats on Winthrop Gold 5 (second shots where many do take a run-up) one year in the final round to see how many players would be able to meet this rule if it was the rule. I would have to find my numbers wherever they are, but IIRC it was something like 80% already would meet this rule without effort. 10% with slight modification, 10% would have to change their technique.

 

[PoorPutter]

That proposal was not meant to disallow run-ups, but to provide a reasonable stance rule that
a) does not cause injury
b) simple to state and understand
c) allows for easy verification of adherence to the rules
It also disallows jump-putts which are difficult to accurately assess for legality.

I gotcha, thanks. I'm more interested in disallowing run-ups (the "stand" in stand-and-deliver at least the way I think of it). But I see where you're coming from now. Thanks for the clarification!

 

[DiscAnarchy]

I have seen this, I am guilty of this at times as well, but the way I think about it is, are they getting any kind of huge advantage by this? Probably not. Is anyone beating me because of this one thing? Nope

. . . are they getting any kind of huge advantage by this? Probably not.

Bingo! This should be the standard for calling rules violations.

 

[Steve West]

. . . are they getting any kind of huge advantage by this? Probably not.

Bingo! This should be the standard for calling rules violations.

Just call anyone for a legitimate foot fault on a run-up, and you'll see how huge an advantage it is to allow them to get away with it. After just a warning, they won't be able to throw straight the rest of the round.

The standard for calling rules violations is when they clearly occur.

My throwing an illegal disc is not a huge advantage, moving up 10 feet in front of the tee is only a 3% advantage, using momentum to get more power on my falling putt is not a huge advantage, avoiding bending over to mark my lie before using the same disc is not a huge advantage, calling one putt per round "good" when it wasn't isn't a huge advantage...

But, they are all acts of cheating.

So, do you think "only if it gives them a huge advantage" should be the standard because you personally like to get away with cheating, or you are just too afwaid to call violations on others?

 

[DiscAnarchy]

Just call anyone for a legitimate foot fault on a run-up, and you'll see how huge an advantage it is to allow them to get away with it. After just a warning, they won't be able to throw straight the rest of the round.

The standard for calling rules violations is when they clearly occur.

My throwing an illegal disc is not a huge advantage, moving up 10 feet in front of the tee is only a 3% advantage, using momentum to get more power on my falling putt is not a huge advantage, avoiding bending over to mark my lie before using the same disc is not a huge advantage, calling one putt per round "good" when it wasn't isn't a huge advantage...

But, they are all acts of cheating.

So, do you think "only if it gives them a huge advantage" should be the standard because you personally like to get away with cheating, or you are just too afwaid to call violations on others?

Fair questions. I don't cheat. Maybe at the highest levels, these things are called. As a first year player, I play Rec. If I see a guy falling through his putt or setting up his stance ahead of his lie or not use a mini properly, I'll say something. But only with the intention of helping the player learn these things, not to make an official call or stroke someone.

I suppose if you wanted everything to be called strictly by the letter of the rules, that's fine. But I think there are gray areas and nuances that need to be taken into consideration.

 

[BlazedOrangeHat]

. . . are they getting any kind of huge advantage by this? Probably not.

Bingo! This should be the standard for calling rules violations.

uhh... yes, they are getting a huge advantage.

their huge advantage is that they don't have to be conscious of where their plant foot is and can throw the disc care-free, while others that ARE playing by the rules are losing some accuracy on their throws because they are being mindful of where their foot is and making sure their foot is on the line of play every time.

 

[JC17393]

Fair questions. I don't cheat. Maybe at the highest levels, these things are called. As a first year player, I play Rec. If I see a guy falling through his putt or setting up his stance ahead of his lie or not use a mini properly, I'll say something. But only with the intention of helping the player learn these things, not to make an official call or stroke someone.

I suppose if you wanted everything to be called strictly by the letter of the rules, that's fine. But I think there are gray areas and nuances that need to be taken into consideration.

It is always good to educate others when they violate a rule out of ignorance of it.

I don't believe there are grey areas when it comes to calling rules violations, however. The attitude of "I'm not going to be too strict about rules in a lower division because we're all still learning" is a generally nice sentiment. The problem is that a great many players never learn that "I'm not going to be strict about rules" ought to be a temporary thing reserved for new players. They maintain that attitude as they progress up the ranks. So when they get to a higher level (or even if they don't), they run across someone who isn't necessarily "strict" but does call violations when he sees them and that player becomes the big meanie/a-hole/d*ck/nazi who dared call them on a legit foot fault or falling putt or wouldn't let them pick up one 3-foot putt as a gimme.

These players always seem to have an excuse why you don't have to care much about rules, from "it's only the Rec division" to "It's only a C-tier" to "we're not making the cut at this NT, who cares?"

Start players with a healthy respect for following the rules, no matter the skill or prestige level of the event they're playing, and it is never a foreign concept when any legitimate violations get called on them.

 

[roggenb3]

Just call anyone for a legitimate foot fault on a run-up, and you'll see how huge an advantage it is to allow them to get away with it. After just a warning, they won't be able to throw straight the rest of the round.

I have seen this happen, and it's one of the reasons this is a pet peeve of mine.

I hit my lie on fairway runups very well so I don't think about it at all really. But for people that aren't confident that they always hit their lie, getting called REALLY gets in their head.

 

[ToddL]

A wise TD once said during a players' meeting, "The rules aren't there to punish you. The rules are there to make sure you're all playing the same game."

That pretty well sums it up for me.

One group might let you miss your lie by 3". A different group might let you miss your lie by 12". A third group calls everything exactly by the book.
One group gives you a "gimme" and lets you pick up your disc 3' from the basket without putting out. A different group gives you a gimme from 10'. A third group calls everything exactly by the book.
One group lets you get away with a falling putt from 32'. A different group lets you get away with a falling putt from 27'. A third group calls everything exactly by the book.

There's only one way to make sure everyone at a tournament is playing the same game.

 

[araytx]

Fair questions. I don't cheat. Maybe at the highest levels, these things are called. As a first year player, I play Rec. If I see a guy falling through his putt or setting up his stance ahead of his lie or not use a mini properly, I'll say something. But only with the intention of helping the player learn these things, not to make an official call or stroke someone.

I suppose if you wanted everything to be called strictly by the letter of the rules, that's fine. But I think there are gray areas and nuances that need to be taken into consideration.

DA -- it's not about "cheating" in 90+% of the cases. I don't cheat either, but I've foot faulted probably a couple dozen times or so in 11 years. I expect to be called when I fault, whether it be from my own lack of concentration, accident, bad footing, or whatever reason. That's the rule. Most players in basketball don't "try" to foul, either, 75+% of the time. But they do, and they should get called. The big difference here is that the players are also the officials.

I was properly called on a foot fault in my last tourney a couple weeks ago, playing a course that I'd played nearly 50 times. On one hole the tee box had to be remarked due to sidewalk construction, and I just threw from where I always had, not realizing that the newly marked tee was different. I wasn't close to being on the box when I threw.

A wise TD once said during a players' meeting, "The rules aren't there to punish you. The rules are there to make sure you're all playing the same game."

That pretty well sums it up for me.

One group might let you miss your lie by 3". A different group might let you miss your lie by 12". A third group calls everything exactly by the book.
One group gives you a "gimme" and lets you pick up your disc 3' from the basket without putting out. A different group gives you a gimme from 10'. A third group calls everything exactly by the book.
One group lets you get away with a falling putt from 32'. A different group lets you get away with a falling putt from 27'. A third group calls everything exactly by the book.

There's only one way to make sure everyone at a tournament is playing the same game.

This exactly .... "...the rules are not there to punish you -- the rules are there to make sure everyone is playing the same game." I'm gonna add that to my pre-tourney player's meeting. Great way to put it.


And btw, it appeared to me that Rick was expecting a call there (by his body language) and seemed genuinely surprised that he didn't get one. Think about it. It'd be pretty easy in a situation like he had wherein, he just didn't realize how unstable the log was he would stand on. Of course he thinks it should be called.