[Question] Potential tech standards changes?

[Tee1]

I don't disagree, but that ignores the fact that a high speed driver continues moving at a higher speed a ways off the tee, and is more likely to go farther and more off course than a slower, more controllable disc.

True.

 

[Halcón]

If you watch the Masters Cup coverage from the Central Coast Disc Golf YouTube channel you can see Philo driving most holes with DX Rocs

Yea, and McBeast was using his Roc3 a ton.

 

[tomsdiscs]

Did not read the whole thread, but....

I read the first couple pages only...........

Kind of crazy for a co-owner of Innova to say this considering the vast majority of sales are high speed drivers (I am basing that on sales stats that Marshall Street has posted in recent years).

I wonder if he is focused on the potential danger high speed wide rimmed drivers pose to people AND the courses, high speed drivers are harder on trees and bushes.

A couple months ago, Charlie Rose interviewed Jack Nicklaus right before the Masters, and Jack said that in his day golf was 20% about power (he was the biggest hitter on tour in his early days), and these days it is 80% about power, so Tiger and crew must have huge, yet controlled power on tour these days.

And I think disc golf is going down the same path, and it might work for Will, Ricky, GG, etc., but not so great for the average player, the average player struggles to really go 400+ with high speed drivers consistently, and with control.

I am excited about discs like the Trespass that seem much more controllable, and to some degree are more of a beefed up fairway driver than just another max width, sharp edged high speed driver.

There is a video on youtube where the Ricos interview Climo, and he said he prefers the older days of weaving flippy discs through fairways versus blowing out overstable high speed drivers.

I do think Final9/safari rounds are a little odd when they basically boil down to nine 1,000+ foot holes created by connecting 2 holes together to render the longer layout and just watching Will, Barsby, Nikko launch bombs.

In ball golf, you will have a standard number of par 3,4,5 holes on each course, too many disc golf courses are just 400-450 foot holes (at least in my area), so you just need a high speed driver and a putter, which is lame, I want to use the whole bag in a round.

 

[harr0140]

Sustainability can be influenced by course design as much as by manufacturing of discs. I agree the wow factor of high speed drivers is a big part.of the enjoyment of watching this.sport and they are only.dangerous townspeople and.to the.sport because of how and where.so many of our.courses are designed.

If high speed drivers are in question . . . what would be the "smallest" diameter or "slowest" disc that would be allowed because there isn't hardly a difference between a Wraith and a 14 speed disc if you ask me . . . they would all do the same damage to a person and they all take skill to be able to throw.

If tech standards changed and they disallowed high speed drivers . . . they would only be able to enforce it in tournaments . . . remember those millions of high speed drivers that every manufacturer sold . . . well those will always be out there and the casual player will continue to use them . . . just like in golf the casual player will continue to use the belly putters or the illegal balls that have been produced int he past or carry 16 clubs or that illegal driver. Some casual players want to feel like a pro so they take advantage by continuing to use those items and disallowing high speed drivers will only impact the tourney players. I would also venture to say that most of the large tourneys are played on better designed courses . . . some of which were designed around the newer technology and wider rimmed discs . . . those courses would then become bad course if forced to play with mid-ranges and putters.

Either way I would love to see this whole discussion play out.

 

[Jay Dub]

I read the first couple pages only...........

Kind of crazy for a co-owner of Innova to say this considering the vast majority of sales are high speed drivers (I am basing that on sales stats that Marshall Street has posted in recent years).

I wonder if he is focused on the potential danger high speed wide rimmed drivers pose to people AND the courses, high speed drivers are harder on trees and bushes.

A couple months ago, Charlie Rose interviewed Jack Nicklaus right before the Masters, and Jack said that in his day golf was 20% about power (he was the biggest hitter on tour in his early days), and these days it is 80% about power, so Tiger and crew must have huge, yet controlled power on tour these days.

And I think disc golf is going down the same path, and it might work for Will, Ricky, GG, etc., but not so great for the average player, the average player struggles to really go 400+ with high speed drivers consistently, and with control.

I am excited about discs like the Trespass that seem much more controllable, and to some degree are more of a beefed up fairway driver than just another max width, sharp edged high speed driver.

There is a video on youtube where the Ricos interview Climo, and he said he prefers the older days of weaving flippy discs through fairways versus blowing out overstable high speed drivers.

I do think Final9/safari rounds are a little odd when they basically boil down to nine 1,000+ foot holes created by connecting 2 holes together to render the longer layout and just watching Will, Barsby, Nikko launch bombs.

In ball golf, you will have a standard number of par 3,4,5 holes on each course, too many disc golf courses are just 400-450 foot holes (at least in my area), so you just need a high speed driver and a putter, which is lame, I want to use the whole bag in a round.

Yes, yes and YES! :clap:

 

[Smigles]

He pulled a hat out of a duffel bag for each aspect of the above items and set them on a stool. He said this stack of hats represents my life and career. He proceed to take a stack of max weight high speed drivers and threw the whole stack at the hats and knocked them off the stool. He then said heavy, sharp, and wide rim discs are ruining everything he has worked his entire life for and our sport can not sustain this model.

So some geezer can not keep up with the times and wants to hold the whole world back just so that HE can feel like a superstar?

I'd not only boooo him out of that meeting, but make damn sure that he will not hand in any more suggestions, ever. What a self centered relic.

I do think Final9/safari rounds are a little odd when they basically boil down to nine 1,000+ foot holes created by connecting 2 holes together to render the longer layout and just watching Will, Barsby, Nikko launch bombs.

In ball golf, you will have a standard number of par 3,4,5 holes on each course, too many disc golf courses are just 400-450 foot holes (at least in my area), so you just need a high speed driver and a putter, which is lame, I want to use the whole bag in a round.

THat's all a matter of course design, not of the discs we have available. Rather than limit the technical possibilities we should have the PDGA enforce course standarts...

I too prefer challenging courses with all sort of holes. But when we come to the 1000 foot hole, I still wanna throw a Nuke.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Interesting parallels to the MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) Summit meetings in the 70s and 80s involving long range Nukes...

 

[StarFirebird]

Um no and no.

1. If you can't control a high speed driver there is no reason to be throwing one in the first place. Everytime I see what looks like to be a beginner/casual looking at discs I kindly show him the Fairway Drivers(Speed 7 or 6) and the Midranges.

2. Beginners/Casual should know the rules when they play. If you have any common sense it tells you not to throw on top of someone. Seriously, this is how people get hurt.

3. For those of us who can control a High Speed Driver, well I'm pretty peeved about this. :wall: If the guy wants to cry about it,let him cry about it in a corner and leave us who can throw these drivers alone.

 

[dashiellx]

Interesting parallels to the MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) Summit meetings in the 70s and 80s involving long range Nukes...

LOL :clap:

Dating myself by acknowledging I know what you're talking about.

So instead of the SALT treaty, we'll have the SDLT.

 

[dashiellx]

2. Beginners/Casual should know the rules when they play. If you have any common sense it tells you not to throw on top of someone. Seriously, this is how people get hurt.

A lot of casual are unaware there are rules, or that discs are designed for different uses. Case in point, last week was helping someone find a missing Mamba. Couldn't find it, but found an unmarked TRex. I handed it to him and tried to explain the differences and watched his eyes just glaze over.

 

[StarFirebird]

A lot of casual are unaware there are rules, or that discs are designed for different uses. Case in point, last week was helping someone find a missing Mamba. Couldn't find it, but found an unmarked TRex. I handed it to him and tried to explain the differences and watched his eyes just glaze over.

I was just referring to rule #1 in my book. The common sense rule. Most don't have that these days.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Forget enforcing it, how many chuckers (with only one disc that happens to be a high speed driver) would read the signs informing them of that standard or care?

Doesn't matter. The chucker is the negligent party at that point, and as such is liable. As opposed to PDGA or Innova.

Shusterick had the worst injury I've seen caused by a disc last year (it was a popular photo I'm not going to try to find). I've seen worse from a baseball hit foul. In multi-use areas. But there's an expectation that passers-by should be aware of a baseball game. Or a golf course. Or any sport other than disc golf.

 

[kutz167]

Doesn't matter. The chucker is the negligent party at that point, and as such is liable. As opposed to PDGA or Innova.

Shusterick had the worst injury I've seen caused by a disc last year (it was a popular photo I'm not going to try to find). I've seen worse from a baseball hit foul. In multi-use areas. But there's an expectation that passers-by should be aware of a baseball game. Or a golf course. Or any sport other than disc golf.

Here's that picture for you:

 

[B3NDER]

Bumbaclot!

 

[DGRZ001]

Wasn't Will's injury caused by a putter? As I recall, Lavone Wolfe tossed it to Will, who evidently was not expecting it.

I first brought up the safety issue in the late 1980s when I was Commissioner of the PDGA, and safety will continue to be an issue until all disc golf courses are placed in single use areas. I recognized that Pandora's box had been opened then, when we were starting to play with discs that we could no longer toss back and forth to each other to warm up with. The Discraft Eclipse comes to mind as an example of such a disc. Back then, if a course was not in the woods, it was usually in what considered a multi-use area.

Restricting fast, larged rimmed discs during tournaments on courses on multi-use areas during PDGA tournaments is one small way to start to rein in what I think that Harold was concerned with, and re: Harold, I think he is one of the most honorable, stand up guys in the sport, regardless of his affiliation with a disc manufacturer, and I personally (if anyone cares) take offense when anyone thinks his display was motivated primarily by money and not by the love that he and I share for this sport that we have been competing for almost 2/3 or our lives.

 

[SmoothSailor]

I've only read through 13 pages of this discussion, but Christian Sandstrom set the last distance record with a Valkyrie at over 820'??? And it's a speed 9 disc. What's the problem?

 

[Halcón]

The problem is that once someone has something, and uses it extensively, it's hard to say, "Oh, now you can't use that anymore." This goes for any sport, any area of life.

Change is hard. But, it's not always bad.

 

[tomte]

I've only read through 13 pages of this discussion, but Christian Sandstrom set the last distance record with a Valkyrie at over 820'??? And it's a speed 9 disc. What's the problem?

Some guy with kind of a double function made a statement/recommendation without giving reasons or backing it up.

 

[Star Shark]

Will's injury was caused by Lavonne Wolfe tossing Devan Owens' Force in on a 20' putt. Will just happened to walk into the path of the throw.

 

[leadpaint]

whats this have to do with safety? How is it ruining his life? Is it because weaker players get more D? is it because the old courses are getting be too short?( i dont agree old shrter courses arejust good mid and putter courses now. is it because he now makes too many discs to carry them all in one bag and when he tries to it hurts his back. can he not grip wide rims.


I personaly feel the on Innova scale speed 10 and slower are the best discs but it doesnt mean a fcking thing. the guy is just going insane