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Power Pocket and Arc-My new video

Just checked those clips, and although he claims they show what he is teaching, I'm not seeing it. Especially not to the 45 degree off target he is claiming.

The dudes the real deal he can throw... he's like the grandfather of "More Snap", YouTube it.... See if you can find that diagram in here it helped me a lot

So the body leads, you plant, reach back with Arm, shift weight forward....
(Your arm is the whip/ towel /pendulum whatever)
Pull the disc in on a 45 degree angle to under your nipple at the same time point your elbow 30 degrees away from the target.
(This is how you are "extra" loading your arm)
As you turn your hips forward you unload your arm. Point your elbow at the target, snap it hard and let it loose!
 
The dudes the real deal he can throw... he's like the grandfather of "More Snap", YouTube it.... See if you can find that diagram in here it helped me a lot

So the body leads, you plant, reach back with Arm, shift weight forward....
(Your arm is the whip/ towel /pendulum whatever)
Pull the disc in on a 45 degree angle to under your nipple at the same time point your elbow 30 degrees away from the target.
(This is how you are "extra" loading your arm)
As you turn your hips forward you unload your arm. Point your elbow at the target, snap it hard and let it loose!

Still doesn't make any sense to me... if you're reaching 180 degrees away from your target, like every expert with any bonafides says you should, and pull at 45 to the left of target, you just wasted the purpose of a reach back. In that case, you may as well just set up with your arm already in the power pocket. I dunno, just speaking from experience, all this stuff did was ruin my throw for a couple weeks until I undid it. Maybe I need to see it done in person.
 
So when it's a 45 degree angle with the arm... that is kind of straight at the basket as your body is also pointing 45 degrees from the target. The back of your shoulder should be pointing at the basket when you start your throw.
 
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Just found this thread after starting disc golf a few weeks ago. This is a gold mine of info. Thanks so much Bradley Walker and all the other people helping with the teaching of this method/technique. Something I'll have to dive into in detail and start working on in my free time on the weekends and hopefully 1-2 evenings during the weekdays when I have time as well. Stuff like this is SO important to learn the nuances of the swing/throw. And without people like BW, Slowplastic, SW22, HUB and others, us newbies would have NO idea what to do or even how to do it. So thank you guys! I'll be mining this forum for more nuggets of gold on how to throw in my quest to become a good disc golfer
 
Bumping for a great video. I finally got out to a field to practice what is taught in the video of the first post. Wow, this is enlightening. It made me realize that I've been collapsing my front shoulder early all along. By trying to keep the arrow (forearm) pointed left it helps keep the shoulder square longer. I could instantly feel more pop and spin so I know this is going to help. As with any radical change my accuracy went down as I couldn't dial in my release point and I was turning the disc over too much but that's okay. Right now I'm just happy to be getting that feeling of extra pop and I feel I can fine tune the release with practice. Thanks Bradley! By the way where is Bradley? Did we run him off?
 
Yup, ran him off but good. He hangs out on facebook.


I personally think his other video of pointing elbow towards left was more helpful as it seems to encourage later hit with the wrist hinge.

Seems like you want to resist the fist from throwing out to left for as long as possible rather than throw it out there. It will fling out left automatically.

But I'm guessing he's just trying to say it's not a linear throw...
 
This was posted 7 years ago on DGR but is still good advice. Good balance and sequence will get you to 350 fairway distance without any special arm angles or wrist curl.

Blake_T said:
With the more advanced discussion on snap, arcs, pivots, etc. that has developed over the past few years (and didn't exist until recently), it seems it is steering newer players down the wrong path.
These techniques are just too advanced and require too much coordination and body awareness to where someone who can't throw 350' [fairway driver] probably can't do them and attempts to do them will be counter productive.

A few examples:
-A strong heel pivot is the result of a very strong throwing form. A strong heel pivot will not make your throwing form strong.
-The disc pivot is the biproduct of a very defined and strong motion. You should not try to force it to happen by loosening your grip.

What I have been seeing a lot of is the equivalent of someone who started to play basketball 3/6/12 months ago and are now trying to perform hardaway's utep-two-step. if you haven't already mastered dribbling with both hands, you will fail.

What I am finding is that anyone who can hit the standard plateau, e.g. 350-ish teebird power, 380-ish wraith power, etc., is able to pickup the advanced techniques with relative ease and minor retooling.
Those who try to perform the advanced techniques before that plateau, ends up ruining their form into requiring a complete rebuild just to get something decent.

If you aren't there yet, save yourself a headache and work on the basics. When you have those mastered, it's time to move on.
 
Its really too bad he was so instantly offended by small disagreements in verbage and left. It is always good to hear the same thing explained in different ways and he is getting very close to the same explanations we have going on here already, just different queues that help different people.

Like he is finally talking about the lower body... seems there is still some work there but the inward pull outward ejection is what is being discussed in many of the current threads here.
That punch out is the exact same thing as knocking a ball off a tee. He's getting very close to what SW has been saying for a long time about keeping the upper arm angle the same.

Also have to agree with 46YOslinger on the immediate drop in accuracy, but the elbow pointed 30 degrees off is just a queue and tool to keep the shoulder closed longer. The whip out took me some work to keep from rounding, which is basically not completing the inward pull... or just starting the outward ejection early... actually goes back to the Beto drill. Take this info, and the outward swing and revisit the Beto drill not trying to throw the disc at the target but use that outward ejection arm motion.
 
I agree - I've been posting/reading here for 6 years and in that time, we have had zero issues with disagreements - other than from time to time, people get cranky about some minor issue or another.

I think one time SW22 told me that I was orangutan and I called him an umpa-lumpa, :D - but we've all remained extremely aware that we're all standing on the shoulders of Blake & Brad (and others) that started the conversations online over at DGCR.

The thing about being involved in a group of people who study sports form, is that we realize that we're not creating this stuff in a silo - we're absorbing Shawn Clement, baseball analysis (throwing and batting), stuff that dg pros have said, and our own experiments - and then trying to share those insights.

When somebody comes into our tribe, the only thing that most of us get prickly about, is that somebody immediately declares their way the only right way or that things we've seen work very well being meaningless or wrongheaded.

This form stuff has to be able to withstand the rigors of debate, at a bare minimum, otherwise it just "feels right" and we have to avoid that trap, as powerful motions often require counter intuitive motions, that don't particularly feel powerful.

Anyways, I wanted to also just say that I appreciate ALL of you guys - it's great to see people from way back and it's great to see new blood in here too. I don't play nearly as often as I used to, but I still pop in everyday to see what's going on.
 
Bradley clearly had a knack for discovering and explaining processes in the disc golf throw. A lot of his insights really really really make a lot of sense. He didn't necessarily bring anything new to the table, but he did bring explanations and a different way of looking at things. He definitely helped me realize a few things personally. The way he describes and visualizes the "inward pull, outward ejection" and "arc" in the throw (and of course his old snap video) really are great ways to help get people to that feeling.

HOWEVER, he takes any scrutiny or questioning as a personal attack. He gets angry and flees. He spreads information fast and without care, and when he's wrong, he rarely acknowledges or explains. People actively seek out his advice on Facebook, and I often disagree with what he's saying. At first I tried replying and having a discussion, but he quickly disappears in frustration at my insolence. I think he blocked me.

It's a bummer. I tried to be very reasonable each time, knowing his demeanor, but we rarely came to an understanding or a place to learn from each other when talking. I think he can/will give a lot more to this DG community, it's just a shame it happens in such strange and syncopated ways.

In any case. Thanks to all the internet gurus of the past and present. You make the work days shorter and the field work longer.

edit: ALSO, ditto this...

The whip out took me some work to keep from rounding, which is basically not completing the inward pull... or just starting the outward ejection early... actually goes back to the Beto drill. Take this info, and the outward swing and revisit the Beto drill not trying to throw the disc at the target but use that outward ejection arm motion.
 
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Yup, ran him off but good. He hangs out on facebook.

I am going to redefine disc golf instruction. I have decided.
You would think that someone who is so abrasive and cocky wouldn't be so fragile and run away from a civil disagreement.

Looks like he is just renaming what I called the "Chicken Wing Finish", into "Flapping". I'm still trying to wrap my peon brain around what much of what he is saying though. :\ https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/...&t=23635&sid=3feb81a3284b60ffa3f376cf90e04724
 
I am totally lost with this maintaining closed shoulder with relaxed arm combo, I just can't do both at same time. Or, am I just way overthinking this stuff.
 
I am totally lost with this maintaining closed shoulder with relaxed arm combo, I just can't do both at same time. Or, am I just way overthinking this stuff.

Assuming RHBH. Have an imaginary target. Stand with your shoulders pointing in a line to it. Step your left foot back so the toes of the left heel are about in line with the heel of the right foot.

Now move your right shoulder forward by about half a foot or more. Two ways to do this, either hunching the right shoulder forward or left shoulder swinging back, counter to the right going forward and turning from the hips (not waist, hips) . Do a bit of both ideally.

Dangle your arm as loose as it can possibly be from the shoulder. Voila. You've now got a closed shoulder with a loose arm.

The problem for most players is that when they shift their weight they shift into an open shoulder position by trying to throw hard (shoulders open early as they swing their weight from back to front and try to throw it all hard) .

Next step then is to get on your toes and shift your weight(not swing, shift is basically walking from foot to foot, your spine stays upright relative to the target line, it doesn't swing back and forth) from back foot to front foot. Maintain that closed shoulder until the weight has shifted.

That weight shift will automatically move the loose arm, if your body position is right (stacked and athletic and the shoulders still closed) you will feel your loose arm come first into the body and then swing out and away as it finds the way blocked by your still closed shoulder, much like the motion Brad describes trying to achieve.

This is where the majority of us here differ from Brad in that we say the body will set up the positions to allow the arm to swing. He believes you can trick the body into the correct positions by focusing on swinging the arm away.

I'm dubious that people on the internet will pick up his focus and do anything but strongarm with them as I can see so many ways to do his thing wrong. That's not to say it won't work, but I suspect you need someone with you who knows what they are doing to make it work properly. It's also not to say that it won't have some distance improvement for people that have so far not had a very good throw, that doesn't necessarily mean its the right building block to focus on.

One thing you find in the form journey is there are lots of dead ends after promising starts. The one constant that always makes you better is better balance. always. whatever you do better balance makes you better.


This forum has moved more and more to an idea of get as balanced and as athletic as you can be and the rest follows rather than trying to find some magic bullet to instant distance.

With that said the Closed Shoulder snap drill is still the best drill IMO for teaching a clean consistent Hit.


The king of driving with a closed shoulder Garrett Gurthie -

zQ2oGnS.jpg
 
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HOWEVER, he takes any scrutiny or questioning as a personal attack. He gets angry and flees. He spreads information fast and without care, and when he's wrong, he rarely acknowledges or explains. People actively seek out his advice on Facebook, and I often disagree with what he's saying. At first I tried replying and having a discussion, but he quickly disappears in frustration at my insolence. I think he blocked me.

edit: ALSO, ditto this...

I agree that he was a bit "touchy" , "techhy" .. As one of the old guys that garnered a lot of respect on DGR it's tough to move over here and be a newbie. He had a nugget of great information but he didn't "word" good. There was some great discussion between SW22, Rhatton1 and him and luckily it's preserved in the different threads. There's a reason he may prefer Facebook so he could block you... I don't blame him, instead of trying to learn what he was saying you were busy picking him apart for poor wording and trying to pigeon hole his technique into SW22's teachings rather than trying some fieldwork before nitpicking it down.

I'm all for discussion etc but having a guy that's been throwing for a few years and constantly saying "Sidewinder says.." Is not entirely helpful. I generally like your posts and the info but I don't feel like you added to that particular discussion but rather escalated it like you were Joe Pesci and SW22 was the big brother that you kept saying was going to kick his ass.
 
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Edited out.. Haha

I'm not saying everything Brad says is right necessarily but everyone has a different piece of the puzzle and they describe it in their own way. If you can understand the description you get another piece for your "puzzle" whatever your form might be.

I totally forgot about HUB's great info and RFrance too.. So many diagrams, contributors and ways of looking at that part of the throw. I learned so much in the week of those threads that it took months to process.
 
I'm all for discussion etc but having a guy that's been throwing for a few years and constantly saying "Sidewinder says.." Is not entirely helpful. I generally like your posts and the info but I don't feel like you added to that particular discussion but rather escalated it like you were Joe Pesci and SW22 was the big brother that you kept saying was going to kick his ass.

I stand by what I said. I agreed with most of what BW said here. In fact, if you read through this thread you can see me and him agreeing on almost everything. If I disagree with something I'm going to say it. If I'm wrong, then great, teach me why. If not, then I'm not going to back down because he's been on the internet discussing form for a long time.

Once he quit here and jumped to facebook, he was spreading this information on the Disc Golf Form Check group. Where lots of new people with little understanding are reading about stuff that Bradley is sharing. The problem is, as we all know, Bradley doesn't focus much on the lower body and I think the stuff he's talking about only works if you've already got a solid throw and a solid understanding of it. YOU HAVE TO in order to interpret what he is saying. It's more dangerous than sharing/exploring that stuff here where there are lots of people with more knowledge about technique.

I'm not going to apologize for OFTEN (almost every post) citing something of Sidewinder's... If that comes across as a little weird then so be it. He's usually right. I learned almost everything about the backhand from the stuff him and HUB have shared.
 
Hey man I've got no problem with SW's advice, I love the engineering think through insight, no doubt he's the authority around here. It's been invaluable to my disc career. In fact I don't have a problem with your advice, it's usually solid, or for that matter anyone's advice, I try to interpret what they are saying but some of it I just skip over.

I'm positive BW would have left here anyways he was a little sensitive and egotistical. You can go back and check the posts but there's a bunch deleted because they don't contribute to posterity. Its obvious you two don't get along... I guess what got me going this morning was that after politely trolling him when he showed up here you bothered to follow him to Facebook and keep picking at him until he blocked you, then here you are this morning picking the bone again with the guy and he's not even here. You're right, you win, end of story.
 
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