[Innova] Problem With Innova's Factory Store

[hawgdriver]

This is simply not true that weight does not affect flight. A heavier disc will be more stable in flight. It has more mass and therefore inertia, which means it functions as a more rigid gyroscope. This is basic science...

On top of that, initial velocity is higher for lighter weight discs thrown equally hard, which will have some effect on the lift/wing characteristics.

All else equal...

 

[dmoore1998]

This is simply not true that weight does not affect flight. A heavier disc will be more stable in flight. It has more mass and therefore inertia, which means it functions as a more rigid gyroscope. This is basic science...

I'm not sure if anyone said it "does not affect flight", but it doesn't affect it much at the discrepancies we're talking about here. OP apparently doesn't care about the 4g difference between 165-169, but cares GREATLY about the 2 gram difference from 165-163.

It's far more likely that if these are indeed flying differently, that it has more to do with PLH of the run he ordered than a few grams. A few grams would be close to indistinguishable in terms of flight path (though yes, some objective difference, just likely not the kind of difference where you'd say "hmm, better weigh these, they seem about 2 grams light based on the flight path they're taking")

 

[oldmandiscer]

I had a problem with a couple overweight Vinny Destros and they did send me new ones. I sent them pictures of the discs on my scale. They were off by 3 grams as well, quite a bit overweight. 178 grams. Technically illegal for PDGA play.

So I had a positive experience overall, though I do wish they could start weighing the discs properly and not just being within 3-4 grams either way.

 

[oldmandiscer]

I'm not going to buy a new Metallica shirt, wear it to their show, have Lars sign it, and then demand that Hot Topic accept an exchange because the fit was too snug. Now, that's mostly because I hate Lars, and would consider his signature to be a net negative, but also because one should attempt to return the product before modifying its value.
Wait, are there still Hot Topics?

I would say it was more a a "defect" with the shirt. You bought the shirt, ordered large. Tried it on and even wore it because it was concert night. Later you looked at the tag on it that said medium. You ordered large, received medium. Didn't notice, partially your fault, however you ordered large and should have received large.

 

[Ahildy13]

This is simply not true that weight does not affect flight. A heavier disc will be more stable in flight. It has more mass and therefore inertia, which means it functions as a more rigid gyroscope. This is basic science...

Moment of interia for a disc is 1/2mr^2, so mass is the lowest contributing factor. The biggest change would be in the ability for the disc to maintain kinetic energy in flight

 

[robdeforge]

It is 100000000000% on Innova to make sure the products they are selling are labeled correctly. OP should not have to double check that ordered discs weigh as much as the manufacturer says they weigh. weird situation, and can be avoided in the future now that you know to not trust the stated weights. but IMO you are totally within your rights

 

[dmoore1998]

It is 100000000000% on Innova to make sure the products they are selling are labeled correctly. OP should not have to double check that ordered discs weigh as much as the manufacturer says they weigh. weird situation, and can be avoided in the future now that you know to not trust the stated weights. but IMO you are totally within your rights

Except who is to say that OPs scale is more accurate than the one Innova is using?

 

[hawgdriver]

It is 100000000000% on Innova to make sure the products they are selling are labeled correctly. OP should not have to double check that ordered discs weigh as much as the manufacturer says they weigh. weird situation, and can be avoided in the future now that you know to not trust the stated weights. but IMO you are totally within your rights

I'd agree except he inked them. This is what the UCC sez (most states follow UCC guidelines).

Revocation

A buyer can accept delivered goods and later revoke the acceptance for the following reasons:

They initially accepted the nonconforming goods because they reasonably assumed that the seller would instantly correct (or cure) the non-conformity.

They accepted the goods before they found out the nonconformity as a result of its difficulty to detect, or because the seller assured them of conformity.

As it applies to rejection, revocation of previously accepted goods must happen soon enough. It should ideally be soon after the buyer detects the reason for revocation and before any depreciation of value occurs on the goods, other than the reason for the revocation.

 

[robdeforge]

Except who is to say that OPs scale is more accurate than the one Innova is using?

Innova doesn't seem to have a problem with OP saying the discs weigh less than advertised, just the inked part. so I guess Innova?

 

[Ahildy13]

It is 100000000000% on Innova to make sure the products they are selling are labeled correctly. OP should not have to double check that ordered discs weigh as much as the manufacturer says they weigh. weird situation, and can be avoided in the future now that you know to not trust the stated weights. but IMO you are totally within your rights

Do you weigh every item of food you get from the store? Do you carry a Flow meter to make sure you are getting exactly the gas you pay for? No, because the world is imperfect. Better get used to it

 

[oldmandiscer]

Except who is to say that OPs scale is more accurate than the one Innova is using?

If you have 20+ discs you will be able to tell if the scale is accurate or not. Say 90% of them are within a gram plus or minus (compared to the stated weight) and then all of a sudden 5 are 3-4 grams under. Statistically it would be almost impossible to have every other disc wrong then the minority wrong. Just like I have weighed over 100 discs, my scale gains credibility because it's nearly impossible for all the discs to end up being off if you keep adding the data points.

 

[dmoore1998]

Innova doesn't seem to have a problem with OP saying the discs weigh less than advertised, just the inked part. so I guess Innova?

You're conflating "we'll take them back to make a customer happy, whatever" and "your scale is more accurate than ours are".

If he hadn't inked them or thrown them, they would have just turned around and sold them to someone else. They're only out a little shipping to keep a customer happy.

 

[dmoore1998]

If you have 20+ discs you will be able to tell if the scale is accurate or not. Say 90% of them are within a gram plus or minus (compared to the stated weight) and then all of a sudden 5 are 3-4 grams under. Statistically it would be almost impossible to have every other disc wrong then the minority wrong. Just like I have weighed over 100 discs, my scale gains credibility because it's nearly impossible for all the discs to end up being off if you keep adding the data points.

By that very logic, Innova has many more data points than OP, so their scales must be more accurate and have more credibility right?

Jokes aside, I know what you're saying. I weigh all my stuff, I'm pretty consistently 2 grams over Innova numbers, and if I came up 5-6 grams over I'd be suspicious. But, I also do it because I care more about the relation of the weights than the actual weight (and then we get into the idea of how you store a scale to keep it consistent, etc).

I didn't get the impression OP is weighing all the discs, it sounded very "casual" like "let me toss these few discs on then form a conclusion".

 

[azplaya25]

I've been very satisfied with my experience with the factory store so far, and I think they offer the best deal in disc golf. I bought 5 disc for around $30 on Friday and got a Brinster teebird as a freebie. Came in here to see what the fuss was about and I'm actually more impressed with Innova now. Can't believe they are willing to give you store credit. Also can't believe that a 4-6 gram difference is making that much of a difference. How did you think they would fly if you've never thrown that weight class?

 

[txmxer]

I've seen pro vids talking about new discs. They get a stack, they throw the discs. They start to sort themselves out. Some make the cut some don't.

It's why people have their disc they throw and a backup or two.

Disc golf is not a game of perfect and plastic is definitely not perfect.

 

[elmexdela]

innova sux ass

when i emailed them about the speed 12 driver i got marked "sw" they demanded a bunch of pics then stop responded

i also got some valks that were marked as "sw" as well

clearly i wanted some sw and not some other molds

i have a thread or two about it

but this is just terrible business stuff they do and then their apologists arent much better

 

[TurnedOver]

I'm not going to buy a new Metallica shirt, wear it to their show, have Lars sign it, and then demand that Hot Topic accept an exchange because the fit was too snug. Now, that's mostly because I hate Lars, and would consider his signature to be a net negative, but also because one should attempt to return the product before modifying its value.
Wait, are there still Hot Topics?

This is a good analogy. I ordered a Large and received a shirt marked "Large" and wore it to the concert when I noticed it was too snug. Later I compared it to a Medium and found it was the same size! They mismarked the shirt. So, yes, they should send me an actual Large because that's what I paid for.

The mismarked shirt's value was modified because of their mistake. And the mistake could not have been obvious to me right away.

 

[jdm0514]

I got to say if your such a stickler about weights then you should've scaled them before throwing. They're dx leos if they are too stable for you then I'm sure after a few rounds they will fly how you like.

 

[TurnedOver]

I think there are two important lessons here:

1. If you care that much about a 5 gram difference then you should be measuring weight first. Especially if you just happen to have an accurate scale lying around.

2. Innova's customer service is much nicer than I would have expected given the situation.

I agree. I'll be measuring weights before I ink from now on!

Innova's customer service reps were nice. But I don't agree with management's decision.

So you requested 165-169, you understand they may be off by 1-3 grams (meaning they could be in any range from 162-172), they are 161-163, and you're mad, but they're pretty much right in the range of what you say you expected. And that's ignoring the fact that you probably don't have an insanely expensive and insanely accurate scale, which could also be off by a few grams at minimum.

You got really lucky they are giving you a credit considering you inked and threw them, and that you're basically just saying "my scale is different from yours, i want to trade for discs that my scale will say weigh a certain amount". You may be putting too much stock into how accurate you think your scale is.

I was expecting 165-169. My complaint was that discs marked 167 actually weighed 161. I do expect some variance (1-3 grams). I'm not sure what I would have done if I received 5 marked 165 and they all weighed 162!

It is 100000000000% on Innova to make sure the products they are selling are labeled correctly. OP should not have to double check that ordered discs weigh as much as the manufacturer says they weigh. weird situation, and can be avoided in the future now that you know to not trust the stated weights. but IMO you are totally within your rights

Yes!

Except who is to say that OPs scale is more accurate than the one Innova is using?

I believe my digital scale is accurate. I use calibration weights. Other Innova discs don't have this problem with the same scale. I've weighed about 50 discs over the past 6 months or so. Almost always within 1-3 grams of their marked weight.

 

[TurnedOver]

...It's far more likely that if these are indeed flying differently, that it has more to do with PLH of the run he ordered than a few grams. A few grams would be close to indistinguishable in terms of flight path (though yes, some objective difference, just likely not the kind of difference where you'd say "hmm, better weigh these, they seem about 2 grams light based on the flight path they're taking")

...Also can't believe that a 4-6 gram difference is making that much of a difference. How did you think they would fly if you've never thrown that weight class?

I used to need low 160's to hyzer flip, but I've improved recently. I now bag a 168 Champion and a 168 DX.

... They're dx leos if they are too stable for you then I'm sure after a few rounds they will fly how you like.

They do break in fast!

I wanted these for fieldwork on an all-grass field so they should have lasted long enough.