[Innova] Problem With Innova's Factory Store

[oldmandiscer]

By that very logic, Innova has many more data points than OP, so their scales must be more accurate and have more credibility right?

Jokes aside, I know what you're saying. I weigh all my stuff, I'm pretty consistently 2 grams over Innova numbers, and if I came up 5-6 grams over I'd be suspicious. But, I also do it because I care more about the relation of the weights than the actual weight (and then we get into the idea of how you store a scale to keep it consistent, etc).

I didn't get the impression OP is weighing all the discs, it sounded very "casual" like "let me toss these few discs on then form a conclusion".

They don't weigh their discs.

 

[Huk Finn]

If anyone cares.. A dollar bill weighs 1g, a nickel weighs 5g.

My scale is accurate.

 

[TurnedOver]

Here are the last 2 messages in my email chain with Innova:

Hello,

I'm not happy with this. I understand weights may be off by 1 to 3 grams. But these are in a different weight class and I can feel the difference when throwing. That's the reason why I weighed them.

It's unreasonable to expect me to weigh each disc before using them. You're supposed to weigh and mark them correctly.

I can send you the 5 mismarked discs if you like.

Hello *****,

We understand that we have made a mistake, but since these have already been thrown and used, we are no longer able to offer replacements as per company policy. We have applied $15 of store credit to your account to offset the cost of the incorrect discs.

Once again we apologize for this error.

INNOVA FACTORY STORE

 

[hawgdriver]

So they didn't know they were inked?

 

[TurnedOver]

They knew I inked the discs and mentioned that was one of the reasons for no exchange. It was in a previous email.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

Absolutely! The customer shouldn't be responsible for finding mismarked discs before inking and using them. These are more than the usual (and expected) 1-3 grams off.



I'm concerned about my approach. What's wrong with my approach?

Funny you mention that you expect the weight to be off, but are ignoring a practical solution that you have control over when you initially purchase them. Specify the gram weight you want them to be (near), and NOT the weight range you want them to reside in.

 

[ThrowBot]

Incorrect order of operations:

1.) Buy disc
2.) Ink disc
3.) Throw disc
4.) Weigh disc
5.) Complain about disc weight and request refund

If you skip steps 2 and 3 then you've got a valid point. However, having accomplished 2 and 3, step 5 is ludicrous. You're lucky the Factory Store gave you anything.

 

[hawgdriver]

Hey all. How about throwing a disc a few times to inspect it (grassy field). Assuming you don't damage or mark it...if the disc is notably not what you expected (in terms of performance)--fair to return/reject it?

I say yes.

 

[hawgdriver]

Not talking about a new to you disc, but something with known performance. I.e. it's def a dud disc.

 

[discerdoo]

Hey all. How about throwing a disc a few times to inspect it (grassy field). Assuming you don't damage or mark it...if the disc is notably not what you expected (in terms of performance)--fair to return/reject it?

I say yes.

Nah, ya pays your money, ya takes your chances. Some discs are duds.

At the very least, weigh them before throwing them.

 

[hawgdriver]

Nah, ya pays your money, ya takes your chances. Some discs are duds.

At the very least, weigh them before throwing them.

That's what I thought, too, until I read the UCC stuff on inspection. It's a silly argument either way since we are talking about a disc and not a $1000 widget, and most discs are just a little 'off' rather than being duds...and it's not like there's some clean way to measure defectiveness (outside of weight and physical condition)...

But there is definitely a legal allowance to 'inspect' goods prior to acceptance, even if it's after you pay (like an online order). So if it's entirely the buyer's discretion about whether the disc has the flight properties desired, and an inspection is a buyer's right...it raises the question at least.

I've never done this and don't plan to do it, I'd rather let the market sort out winners and losers (on quality and reputation). I've bought maybe two discs (out of dozens) that really surprised me by flying far from expectation. So I just repurposed them to a new task.

But in general, when we buy a certain thing, say a used vehicle, we get a chance to put it through its paces a bit prior to the handshake. Should we view discs in a similar way?

 

[dmoore1998]

That's what I thought, too, until I read the UCC stuff on inspection. It's a silly argument either way since we are talking about a disc and not a $1000 widget, and most discs are just a little 'off' rather than being duds...and it's not like there's some clean way to measure defectiveness (outside of weight and physical condition)...

But there is definitely a legal allowance to 'inspect' goods prior to acceptance, even if it's after you pay (like an online order). So if it's entirely the buyer's discretion about whether the disc has the flight properties desired, and an inspection is a buyer's right...it raises the question at least.

I've never done this and don't plan to do it, I'd rather let the market sort out winners and losers (on quality and reputation). I've bought maybe two discs (out of dozens) that really surprised me by flying far from expectation. So I just repurposed them to a new task.

But in general, when we buy a certain thing, say a used vehicle, we get a chance to put it through its paces a bit prior to the handshake. Should we view discs in a similar way?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen a legal right to "put it through it's paces" (I assume you mean via driving it and not just looking at it). I believe that comes directly from the dealer wanting to sell you the car and therefore allowing you to drive his car around a bit.

Nothing stopping a disc retailer from letting you try used discs and seeing which ones you want to take home. I know of at least 1 who is planning something similar though not yet in effect.

I'd also point out that "inspect" might be considered different from "try out and use" as far as the UCC goes.

 

[hawgdriver]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen a legal right to "put it through it's paces" (I assume you mean via driving it and not just looking at it). I believe that comes directly from the dealer wanting to sell you the car and therefore allowing you to drive his car around a bit.

Nothing stopping a disc retailer from letting you try used discs and seeing which ones you want to take home. I know of at least 1 who is planning something similar though not yet in effect.

I'd also point out that "inspect" might be considered different from "try out and use" as far as the UCC goes.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-513

It's a worthwhile distinction between inspect and use. One could argue each. I'm just chewing on the idea more than anything. As a disc-buyer, I wouldn't mind being able to know what I'm buying before I buy it.

The way I see it, there's no practical way of inspecting a disc's flight properties without flying it. But there's no way to fly it without risking depreciation of the disc. It's an enigma wrapped in a riddle. Whatever the parties agree to, and custom will probably hold sway in a tie.

 

[dmoore1998]

https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-513

It's a worthwhile distinction between inspect and use. One could argue each. I'm just chewing on the idea more than anything. As a disc-buyer, I wouldn't mind being able to know what I'm buying before I buy it.

The way I see it, there's no practical way of inspecting a disc's flight properties without flying it. But there's no way to fly it without risking depreciation of the disc. It's an enigma wrapped in a riddle. Whatever the parties agree to, and custom will probably hold sway in a tie.

And to be clear, the people talking about letting you try a disc before you buy it...the idea is an indoor throwing range...and I'm sure you'll be trying a "mold" before buying a "new one of that mold". Not exactly trying a specific disc...I also don't see much way around that, though mostly because consumers seem to want to buy a "new" disc that has never been thrown...unlike people buying "new" cars who are fine with it having been previously driven to some extent.

 

[txmxer]

Hey all. How about throwing a disc a few times to inspect it (grassy field). Assuming you don't damage or mark it...if the disc is notably not what you expected (in terms of performance)--fair to return/reject it?

I say yes.

I say yes. Sounds to me like Innova would have been good with that as well.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

But in general, when we buy a certain thing, say a used vehicle, we get a chance to put it through its paces a bit prior to the handshake. Should we view discs in a similar way?

No. I've never viewed spending twenty bucks on a bad concert as a reason to go after the club, or promoter. I just chalk it up and move on.

 

[Sydex]

2-606(c) of the UCC would likely apply since they're marked.

 

[hawgdriver]

2-606(c) of the UCC would likely apply since they're marked.

Nailed it! :clap:

 

[hawgdriver]

No. I've never viewed spending twenty bucks on a bad concert as a reason to go after the club, or promoter. I just chalk it up and move on.

For sure. I think goods like discs and hard drives are a different animal though from services like massages and concerts--at least they are under the law.