Pushing/balancing off back leg

[RFrance]

Ben talks at 2:30 about using the PELVIS to drive the back knee down and through. Also, before this at 2:20 he says to use the pelvis to drive DOWN into landing versus spinning open.

 

[Sheep]

Ben talks at 2:30 about using the PELVIS to drive the back knee down and through. Also, before this at 2:20 he says to use the pelvis to drive DOWN into landing versus spinning open.

That was fantastic!

And it needs to connect with the hip rotational movement thing to.

There are so many layers to things, its so fascinating.

But also, he totally just murders "squish the bug" also.

As I soap boxed, its important to look for the movements that drive the reaction. not drive from a reaction.
If you were not quite... smart enough, you'd look at something like this with 0 explanation like he's giving and think to yourself "oh i just have to drive my knee in to make it look like that."

Which is something we really really need to worry about more and more as content creators.
Because there are really complicated things going on that need explanations, but the attention span of your average person looking at video's isnt' there.
As well, people are not looking much at "course" style move through the DG swing like I've done in multiple other sports, ball golf being one of them trying many techniques. (I ended up teaching natural golf if anyone is curious)

So, when people looking for disc golf help, they are going to be looking for short video's about what they think their specific problem is.

Man, i see a death spiral of craziness and a massive catch 22.

 

[jupiterboy]

Really nice how he used is words to fully explain what his intentions are up front.

 

[timothy42b]

That was fantastic!

And it needs to connect with the hip rotational movement thing to.

There are so many layers to things, its so fascinating.

But also, he totally just murders "squish the bug" also.

He would seem to be a front leg thrower. <g>
But I wondered about one thing.
He says the pelvis drags the bag leg, which makes perfect sense.
But he also says it lifts the front leg into extension. I would have thought the front leg extension drove the front hip back instead.

 

[jupiterboy]

He's thinking of pelvis as a bowl.

 

[banzai7]

He would seem to be a front leg thrower. <g>
But I wondered about one thing.
He says the pelvis drags the bag leg, which makes perfect sense.
But he also says it lifts the front leg into extension. I would have thought the front leg extension drove the front hip back instead.

Check out the first 4 mins of this video: https://youtu.be/o3SqB6symC0

 

[timothy42b]

Check out the first 4 mins of this video: https://youtu.be/o3SqB6symC0

Not trying to be argumentative, I'm asking questions trying to understand.

1. If you showed this video on slingshot channel he would say it proves squishing the bug. And, it kind of does look like it to me. But the earlier video in this thread clearly lifts the rear leg. So if the front leg extension doesn't move the front hip back, and the rear leg extension doesn't move the rear hip forward, then what rotates the pelvis?

2. Ball golfers get as much as 300% of their body weight in vertical force downward on that front foot. Can that happen without the front leg extension? Dr. Kwon in his step drill insists on kicking with that front leg.

 

[RFrance]

I was going to post an image of muscles of the pelvic girdle but I don't think it would really help show what is going on since they are all involved. From what I read the Quadratus Lumborium (QL) is one of the major muscles to cause pelvic rotation. Here is a image of that. "The QL muscle is an integral part of the thoracolumbar fascia, a myofascial system that covers the posterior area of the human body, involving part of the lower and upper limbs." https://www.physio-pedia.com/Quadratus_Lumborum

Try moving the pelvic girdle like he does by just holding onto the back of a chair. It does take some practice to start to get the feel of it. Once you start to get it you can feel how powerful it is. Since it is part of the myofascial system once you trigger it, it goes fast.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[RFrance]

I definitely agree that we should not be doing hip rotation. But isn't the pelvic dissociation for hip/shoulder separation similar to what KJ is doing Rocking the Hips?

 

[banzai7]

Not trying to be argumentative, I'm asking questions trying to understand.

1. If you showed this video on slingshot channel he would say it proves squishing the bug. And, it kind of does look like it to me. But the earlier video in this thread clearly lifts the rear leg. So if the front leg extension doesn't move the front hip back, and the rear leg extension doesn't move the rear hip forward, then what rotates the pelvis?

2. Ball golfers get as much as 300% of their body weight in vertical force downward on that front foot. Can that happen without the front leg extension? Dr. Kwon in his step drill insists on kicking with that front leg.

Yeah I was confused by the video too. In that drill pulling the weights he's squishing the bug. I shared it because it shows what he's thinking — it explains his comments in the other video. I don't know Jack squat about whether the idea is correct. What is this "pawback" mechanism (or whatever the word is)? Is it a known physiological thing?

The Malaska vid SW22 shared is pretty damning.

 

[semisensei]

I liked this explanation of the mechanics. He breaks it down into: Drift, Drop, Rotate, and Block. Jelezny seems to fit this model.

It's interesting to me that Rotate comes before Block. I guess it makes total sense: the hips clear, and when they reach the end of their rotation, they can block and send energy up the chain.
But where does the weight shift fit in to this simplified sequence? Between Drop and Rotate, or between Rotate and Block?
In another way, is the weight shift complete (100% of weight pressure on plant foot) before Rotate happens, or after Rotate is complete?

 

[sidewinder22]

It's interesting to me that Rotate comes before Block. I guess it makes total sense: the hips clear, and when they reach the end of their rotation, they can block and send energy up the chain.
But where does the weight shift fit in to this simplified sequence? Between Drop and Rotate, or between Rotate and Block?
In another way, is the weight shift complete (100% of weight pressure on plant foot) before Rotate happens, or after Rotate is complete?

Keep in mind that backhand is basically mirrored forehand/pitching, doing a One Leg Drill either FH or BH is done with the same leg as the throwing arm, so it's the same ipsilateral connection or lateral sling while using opposite anterior vs posterior slings.

There's some variance in the numbers depending on width of stance vs an absolute(only siths deal in absolutes). Think majority of weight pressure shift, vs 100% pressure shift. Or think about changing tilt within dynamic balance.

In regard to Block, think Vertical Force within the Horizontal, Rotational, Vertical Ground Forces. The sequence is Horizontal/shift, Rotate, Vertical.

 

[RFrance]

At the bottom below is a video of Trevor Bauer on his Drift, Drop, Rotate, and Block progression as a pro. It is a little long but my take aways from it are:

1. He is at the early pro stage while still getting his mechanics wrong but knows or is learning what he needs to work on. That is, he is at the way above average athlete stage for his game and still struggles with his form.
2. He is able to articulate concisely on what he was doing in the past versus what he now knows what he needs to do.
3. He uses the terms that we are familiar with such as loading, separation, elastic energy, etc.
4. A good, detailed discussion on his biomechanics.

When he talks about the hips being level or rotating think about the pelvic ilium or ilium crest being level or rotating.

Related to this thread on what the back leg should be doing and pelvic dissociation and hip/shoulder separation followed by blocking starting at about 30:00:

(As a side note, the guy was a Cy Young Award pitcher in 2020 but, apparently he seems to have off the field issues according to Wikipedia (as a few other major league pros (MLB, NFL, etc.) do.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[Hampejo]

Worth a watch in your opinion?

 

[Sheep]

That burn is so hard.

 

[timothy42b]

On lifting the front leg straight vs extending the front leg straight:

https://treadathletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Otani-Front-Leg.gif

https://treadathletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Otani-Front-Leg.gif

Guess I don't know how to insert a gif. I'll learn that next.

 

[blayed]

On lifting the front leg straight vs extending the front leg straight:

https://treadathletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Otani-Front-Leg.gif

https://treadathletics.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Otani-Front-Leg.gif

Guess I don't know how to insert a gif. I'll learn that next.

How well do pitching mechanics translate to BH? Because when I watched your gifs all I could see is sidearm

Which is kind of an interesting point because since ive been throwing more and more sidearm of the tee, I think there ARE some analogies. Bracing is still very real. But the "move" is different. Footwork and rotation feels different

 

[blayed]

Ok Im an idiot I just noticed the seabas22 post above talking about BH being mirrored pitching :doh: