Recent Scott Stokely Video Finally Gave Me a Forehand

[Rastnav]

I mean hell, I'm still trying to figure out which stacked grip is which in this debate.

The debate is about where the pads of the fingers sit, not so much which finger is stacked over the other. Pads of the fingers pressed on the rim vs. pads of the fingers pressed up against the flight plate. Sheep is saying that pads on the rim results in less strain on the joints of the hand.

 

[Sheep]

I mean hell, I'm still trying to figure out which stacked grip is which in this debate.

See this graphic I don't particularly care for, but it works. But that's mainly because I don't know anyone who uses the "stacked" vs the "power" they are demonstrating here. Most everyone uses the "power" here and calls it stacked. In my experience anyways.

The 2 finger grip its demonstrating a lot of people use. It doesn't allow for proper wrist movement during the throw and puts pressure on your hand in really odd ways.

The stacked grip (power in the graphic) is the normal grip which a lot of people use.
They generally use the two finger or some version of a stacked.

Both have their benefits
I actually have a very specific throw I do where I use a two finger fan grip, which isn't even shown in this graphic.

The stacked style grips promote good wrist movement and allow you to use your hand to properly apply power into the disc with how your joints are designed to work.
While the two finger does not.

So, to draw back to the original topic of the thread.
"serving the pizza" (which is the dumbest thing i've ever heard)

If you're throwing a stacked style grip, you do not want to try and "serve the pizza" like scott is talking about.

If you're throwing a 2 finger style grip with your palm up to the plate. You need to serve the pizza.
Otherwise you'll be rolling your wrist and creating OAT.

The debate is about where the pads of the fingers sit, not so much which finger is stacked over the other. Pads of the fingers pressed on the rim vs. pads of the fingers pressed up against the flight plate. Sheep is saying that pads on the rim results in less strain on the joints of the hand.

I don't think people really put much thought into it honestly.
I hate my brain works this way and I wish I could just throw discs watch go woosh. But I'm thinking about far more than that.

Simply putting a disc in the 2 finger grip and grabbing the disc and flexing it back into your hand like it would see stress in the throw, you should be able to feel the strain all throughout your hand into your wrist just doing that.

 

[Rastnav]

I hate my brain works this way and I wish I could just throw discs watch go woosh. But I'm thinking about far more than that.

I've been overthinking things since about 1972, as I was born in 1969.

 

[BillFleming]

In all honesty to put this bluntly. Don't defend stupidity because what they are doing is working for "that" moment.

I wasn't defending stupidity or anything else. I was just making a comment that Eagle's injury was due to him doing that 360 throw which he had never done before. Sidewinder22 pointed out that Eagle had issues before then, which I wasn't aware of. But believe me, I was not defending stupidity....I thought Eagle's 360 forehand for Jomez was the height of stupidity....doing a throw you've never done before just for a video when you depend on the health of your body for your career.

 

[hisdudeness47]

The debate is about where the pads of the fingers sit, not so much which finger is stacked over the other. Pads of the fingers pressed on the rim vs. pads of the fingers pressed up against the flight plate. Sheep is saying that pads on the rim results in less strain on the joints of the hand.

Oh it's pads on the rim all the way. It's hammering a nail, not karate choppin'. I don't know about finger strain and all that but I know this is much better for my elbow tendonitis (had it since pitching as a teen). Pads on the flight plate is like throwing a slider over and over and over. Pads on the rim is like throwing a fastball over and over and over. Repeated sliders hurt me way more than repeated fastballs.

 

[hisdudeness47]

Love this graphic! Saved. I was two finger a while back and couldn't figure out why I couldn't throw a forehand with natural flights and without pain. It was all the karate chop. Did not work for me. I've moved to stacked (and hammering the nail) and I'm getting much more success with less pain. I'd actually say I'm pushing towards power. That bent index on top of the middle feels great.

The split finger is insane. I don't know how people hold discs like that. Does not compute.

See this graphic I don't particularly care for, but it works. But that's mainly because I don't know anyone who uses the "stacked" vs the "power" they are demonstrating here. Most everyone uses the "power" here and calls it stacked. In my experience anyways.

The 2 finger grip its demonstrating a lot of people use. It doesn't allow for proper wrist movement during the throw and puts pressure on your hand in really odd ways.

The stacked grip (power in the graphic) is the normal grip which a lot of people use.
They generally use the two finger or some version of a stacked.

Both have their benefits
I actually have a very specific throw I do where I use a two finger fan grip, which isn't even shown in this graphic.

The stacked style grips promote good wrist movement and allow you to use your hand to properly apply power into the disc with how your joints are designed to work.
While the two finger does not.

So, to draw back to the original topic of the thread.
"serving the pizza" (which is the dumbest thing i've ever heard)

If you're throwing a stacked style grip, you do not want to try and "serve the pizza" like scott is talking about.

If you're throwing a 2 finger style grip with your palm up to the plate. You need to serve the pizza.
Otherwise you'll be rolling your wrist and creating OAT.




I don't think people really put much thought into it honestly.
I hate my brain works this way and I wish I could just throw discs watch go woosh. But I'm thinking about far more than that.

Simply putting a disc in the 2 finger grip and grabbing the disc and flexing it back into your hand like it would see stress in the throw, you should be able to feel the strain all throughout your hand into your wrist just doing that.

 

[Skervoy]

People give hokom crap over her "weird form" but she's throwing with her body mostly.

But in all honesty, forehands are tough on your body vs a backhand. I had a discussion with Ricky about it a while back. I was showing him how to play the course here for the tournament and we started talking about forehands because it required a forehand shot.



In all honesty to put this bluntly. Don't defend stupidity because what they are doing is working for "that" moment.
Eagles forehand was amazing in the results, but what he was doing to achieve that result was really really really bad. You could see him hyper extend his joints during his forehands. To which some people were like "Well, yeah, he's flexable."

Hyperextending joints damages them over time the more you do it. That's why defending his forehand is kinda dumb to be doing. We can marvel at it as the train slowly wrecks.



None of us are doctors and can legit make broad statements like these. However, yes, its very easy to damage the shoulder or the elbow. But I think you forget that our body isn't single joints acting independently of each other. Strain in your hand can have affects in your neck, elbow, shoulder, wrist. Just like your feet can cause you back or neck pain.

A lot of people use that grip, and they do it successfully. Does it mean its wrong? Maybe. Or right? Maybe.
But we can easily look at how the body movies and take some time to work and teach in ways that put less strain on peoples bodies vs teaching them something based on "well, everyone does it and it doesn't bother me." When that could actually cause them issues over time.

That's the whole point of coaching/teaching. Helping people not injure themselves. It's really the base line part of being a coach for any sport. Helping people do better to avoid injury and be more successful.

I can agree that if the end result is the same the stacked on rim is the prefered way both mechanically and safety wise. But still the common knowledge is that poor form creates shoulder injuries, never have I seen a reference to a sit out because of finger problems from a forehand.

I also agree that longevity should be a very high goal on the list of focus, especially amateurs, a pro getting an edge it can be more of a risk vs reward discussion but for weekend warriors healty is highest priority.


In the end the side stacked grip will be inferior in generating power so either a person wants better distance and will most likely stack them on the rim or they are content at using the forehand as utility and then it really wont matter as much.

 

[BillFleming]

See this graphic I don't particularly care for, but it works. But that's mainly because I don't know anyone who uses the "stacked" vs the "power" they are demonstrating here. Most everyone uses the "power" here and calls it stacked. In my experience anyways.
.

I did the "stacked" grip they show in the diagram. Did it for a long time, but lately I'm trying the "power" grip and seeing a bit of improvement.

The "stacked" grip (middle finger on the rim, pointer finger on the middle finger) is close to a one-finger grip. The middle finger does the majority of the work and the first finger is 'along for the ride'. The "power" grip (pointer finger and middle finger on the rim) seems to have less "finger" on the rim, but provides more power. At least it seems that way to me.

 

[Sheep]

I wasn't defending stupidity or anything else. I was just making a comment that Eagle's injury was due to him doing that 360 throw which he had never done before. Sidewinder22 pointed out that Eagle had issues before then, which I wasn't aware of. But believe me, I was not defending stupidity....I thought Eagle's 360 forehand for Jomez was the height of stupidity....doing a throw you've never done before just for a video when you depend on the health of your body for your career.

Sorry, as I said, it was a bit blunt, it wasn't an attack, I apologize if you took it in that fashion. A lot of people out there were defending Eagles forehand despite how stupid of strain he was putting his body through and not using their brain, but defending the results.

The split finger is insane. I don't know how people hold discs like that. Does not compute.

right?

I did the "stacked" grip they show in the diagram. Did it for a long time, but lately I'm trying the "power" grip and seeing a bit of improvement.

The "stacked" grip (middle finger on the rim, pointer finger on the middle finger) is close to a one-finger grip. The middle finger does the majority of the work and the first finger is 'along for the ride'. The "power" grip (pointer finger and middle finger on the rim) seems to have less "finger" on the rim, but provides more power. At least it seems that way to me.

Way easier to get spin on the disc which the forehand already lacks.

 

[sidewinder22]

The split finger is insane. I don't know how people hold discs like that. Does not compute.

right?

Feels like a fastball grip to me. It's how I naturally gripped the disc first time.

 

[BillFleming]

Sorry, as I said, it was a bit blunt, it wasn't an attack, I apologize if you took it in that fashion. A lot of people out there were defending Eagles forehand despite how stupid of strain he was putting his body through and not using their brain, but defending the results.


right?



Way easier to get spin on the disc which the forehand already lacks.

No need to apologize. I didn't take it as an attack. I just wanted to follow up and clarify that I thought his injury was due only to the 360 but got corrected on that. I rarely take offense to anything.

Anyways...moving on. The 'stacked' grip just came naturally to me and if I wanted to lose power (upshots and short forehands) I could easily fan my fingers out. The fan grip also helped me keep the disc level, where the 'stacked' grip would cause it to hyzer easily. But then I kept seeing lots of suggestions on the 'power' grip and gave it a try. Took some getting used to, but as you said, way easier to get spin and my throws go longer.

 

[BillFleming]

Feels like a fastball grip to me. It's how I naturally gripped the disc first time.
<<removed photos>>

That is what more instructors should do. Use a clear disc to show grip. The majority of "grip" instructions only show the finger position on the bottom of the disc. Rarely do they show the thumb position and if they do, it is never shown with the position of the fingers. It would even be nice if the instructor took the grip, showed it, took the disc away and showed the grip without the disc. Seeing the thumb position in conjunction with the fingers would be helpful.

 

[Sheep]

Feels like a fastball grip to me. It's how I naturally gripped the disc first time.

Oh the insanity! =)

That is what more instructors should do. Use a clear disc to show grip. The majority of "grip" instructions only show the finger position on the bottom of the disc. Rarely do they show the thumb position and if they do, it is never shown with the position of the fingers. It would even be nice if the instructor took the grip, showed it, took the disc away and showed the grip without the disc. Seeing the thumb position in conjunction with the fingers would be helpful.

There are lots of things out there instructors don't get into. Their goal is to generally simplify things and get views, views = money. etc.

As well, most people want "magic fixes" for their form
when the reality is, grip can fix a lot of form issues, or cause other form issues.
The whole thing is complicated, yet simple.

So when they do show any of that stuff, they don't really even understand the differences.

 

[EllEstar]

See this graphic I don't particularly care for, but it works. But that's mainly because I don't know anyone who uses the "stacked" vs the "power" they are demonstrating here. Most everyone uses the "power" here and calls it stacked. In my experience anyways.

[...]

The stacked grip (power in the graphic) is the normal grip which a lot of people use.
They generally use the two finger or some version of a stacked.

I don't know if it's a regional thing or what, but almost everyone I've played with uses stacked, two-finger or (occasionally) one-finger. I've literally never seen anyone use power in person.

 

[Sheep]

I don't know if it's a regional thing or what, but almost everyone I've played with uses stacked, two-finger or (occasionally) one-finger. I've literally never seen anyone use power in person.

A lot of people honestly gravitate to that normally. not sure why. makes no sense to me.

There are a lot of people though I just simply change the grip and their forehand suddenly is good, because all their other mechanics are not. they just were not sure how to hold it and i think thats just what they come up with on a simple basis, cause its really straight forward grip.

 

[gwsmallwood]

There are a lot of people though I just simply change the grip and their forehand suddenly is good

I've been trying to help out a couple of my friends with this. They both would like better forehands, and they both use the serve-the-pizza grip with the finger pads on the flight plate. I'm trying to get them to move to a stacked grip, which is what helped me.

 

[EllEstar]

A lot of people honestly gravitate to that normally. not sure why. makes no sense to me.

There are a lot of people though I just simply change the grip and their forehand suddenly is good, because all their other mechanics are not. they just were not sure how to hold it and i think thats just what they come up with on a simple basis, cause its really straight forward grip.

I was just saying that your claim that everyone seems to gravitate towards power grip doesn't correspond to my experience at all. Plenty of good forehand players here, too.

 

[gwsmallwood]

Brian Earhardt just did a good video talking about how there's no such thing as a universal release for forehand throws. How you throw a forehand varies quite a bit based on what disc you're throwing. After about 6 months of going forehand dominant, I completely agree with him, and it's something I've never seen anyone else talk about.

https://youtu.be/yyZkcQT4oL4

 

[sidewinder22]

Brian Earhardt just did a good video talking about how there's no such thing as a universal release for forehand throws. How you throw a forehand varies quite a bit based on what disc you're throwing. After about 6 months of going forehand dominant, I completely agree with him, and it's something I've never seen anyone else talk about.

https://youtu.be/yyZkcQT4oL4

That might be his philosophy.

I don't change the mechanics of the release. The balance/angle and how hard to throw changes.

 

[gwsmallwood]

That might be his philosophy.

I don't change the mechanics of the release. The balance/angle and how hard to throw changes.

Interesting. I've been throwing almost exclusively forehand since February. I generally play 18 - 36 holes a week and I do fieldwork on average once per week. I can't throw all my discs with the same forehand release. The explanation that Brian gives is totally true for me. If I want to forehand an understable putter or mid, even some of my Buzzzes, I have to stop my arm a lot farther back like he suggests in order to get the proper wrist activation (and spin) without the disc turning and burning on me. I use pretty much the same form for all of my higher speed discs, though, regardless of their stability.