Round Ratings

[jeverett]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed already, but I don't really want to slog through all the previous posts :doh:. So sorry if this is redundant.

But I'm wondering about the value of including all of a players' rounds, even rounds that are by no means recent. I feel like the ratings for individual rounds are quite accurate, however, a player's composite rating has a tendency to be far from his/her true current rating if he/she has many rounds that are below their current standard, even if those rounds are well in the past.

For example, I have been playing this wonderful sport for ~3 years now. I've recorded nearly all my rounds since then, and have seen my individual round ratings go up significantly. When I started, I was shooting about 700, but have been shooting consistently over 900 :thmbup: for the past months. But my composite rating is still around 840 .

I realize that the most recent 25% (or similar) of one's rounds are weighted heavier, but that still gives old rounds a big part of the calculation. So I guess my question is: Would there be value/ Would it be possible to only use rounds within a certain time frame in overall ratings calculations?

Thanks!

Yes, just like the PDGA system, the DGCR rating system only goes back as far as a year (in between your most-recent round and the oldest-included round). Here is the FAQ text for how player ratings are calculated:

Your player rating is the average of your recorded rounds over the past calendar year (i.e. there will be up to a year between your most recent round and the oldest round included), weighted according to how many holes were played in the round (e.g. a recorded round for a 9-hole layout only weighs half as much as a recorded round for an 18-hole layout), with your most-recent 25% of included rounds double-weighted. If you have less than 12 rounds for the year we will pull some older rounds to use in our calculation. You must have at least 5 rounds recorded to obtain a rating.

Source: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/faq.php?mode=show&id=44

 

[nat16dick]

Yes, just like the PDGA system, the DGCR rating system only goes back as far as a year (in between your most-recent round and the oldest-included round). Here is the FAQ text for how player ratings are calculated:

Your player rating is the average of your recorded rounds over the past calendar year (i.e. there will be up to a year between your most recent round and the oldest round included), weighted according to how many holes were played in the round (e.g. a recorded round for a 9-hole layout only weighs half as much as a recorded round for an 18-hole layout), with your most-recent 25% of included rounds double-weighted. If you have less than 12 rounds for the year we will pull some older rounds to use in our calculation. You must have at least 5 rounds recorded to obtain a rating.

Source: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/faq.php?mode=show&id=44

Oh man, I wish I could read :\ Thanks!

 

[agibson]

One more in the "probably already answered in one long thread or another" column:

How often is the "DGCR Player Rating" in my Profile updated? With each round entered? Or with some once-daily (or other interval) automated script? Frequently, by hand, by an army of trained flying monkeys?

 

[scarpfish]

Proud to see that I won my division at league yesterday with a 745 rated round.

 

[timg]

One more in the "probably already answered in one long thread or another" column:

How often is the "DGCR Player Rating" in my Profile updated? With each round entered? Or with some once-daily (or other interval) automated script? Frequently, by hand, by an army of trained flying monkeys?

The monkeys update it right after you enter a round.

 

[Dave242]

Yay monkeys!

 

[MikeK]

Sorry if someone asked this already...is there someone we can inform when the DGCR ratings are way off from pDGA?

One of my local courses is pretty accurate but one is about 60-75 points off.

 

[mashnut]

Did you check to see if the distances and the foliage level are correct?

 

[jeverett]

Sorry if someone asked this already...is there someone we can inform when the DGCR ratings are way off from pDGA?

One of my local courses is pretty accurate but one is about 60-75 points off.

As Mashnut mentioned, the only two things to check on are the hole distances and the course 'foliage level' (lightly wooded, moderately wooded, or heavily wooded). With that information (only), the SSE formulas do what they can do try to approximate what the SSA for that particular course/layout might be (in fair weather). Sometimes they match up very nicely, but sometimes the 'foliage level' value for the course doesn't really line up well with how technical the course actually plays.. and right now for those cases we don't have any options for increasing accuracy of the SSE formulas (we'd need more data inputs into the formula, which would involve more database fields for each course in the DGCR directory).

 

[MikeK]

Distances are exact.

I went ahead and changed the foliage level on the course info page, perhaps that was the issue. I don't suppose the DGCR rating updates course foliage automatically? If not please tell the volunteers to take a look at Lafreniere Park in Metairie LA.

Pretty cool ratings system so far DGCR. Keep up the good work.

 

[MikeK]

right now for those cases we don't have any options for increasing accuracy of the SSE formulas (we'd need more data inputs into the formula, which would involve more database fields for each course in the DGCR directory).

Believe it or not, human knowledge of the course can actually increase SSA/SSE accuracy.

Whether the knowledge comes from prior pDGA tournament data or an educated guess, it increases accuracy of the SSA/SSE.

This is an easy way (for time-limited volunteers) to implement improvement to a course SSA.

 

[timg]

Mike,

I think calling that course moderately wooded is a bit of stretch (going by the photos and satellite view) and changing the value just to adjust the SSE is a really bad idea. The descriptive purpose of the field is far, far more important than its impact on the SSE. I think the fact that the course has 24 holes accounts for some of the variance.

To answer your other question, old round ratings, player ratings, etc. do not adjust if someone messes with the course fields. Only rounds entered after that will use the new information.

 

[Dave242]

Distances are exact.

I went ahead and changed the foliage level on the course info page, perhaps that was the issue. I don't suppose the DGCR rating updates course foliage automatically? If not please tell the volunteers to take a look at Lafreniere Park in Metairie LA.

Pretty cool ratings system so far DGCR. Keep up the good work.

Looking at this course map and pictures, it appears that there is quite a bit of OB in the form of water and pavement. The effect that OB has on scoring is the same effect that tons of trees do (if you go OB you lose distance like hitting a tree AND you lose a stroke like immediately hitting another tree on your recovery shot). DGCR's SSE has no way of compensating for this based on the 2 parameters used in the estimation (length & foliage).

My other question would be that since this is a 24 hole course, can you verify that the SSA is also based on a tournament/s played on the exact same layout?

 

[Dave242]

I think calling that course moderately wooded is a bit of stretch (going by the photos and satellite view) and changing the value just to adjust the SSE is a really bad idea. The descriptive purpose of the field is far, far more important than its impact on the SSE. I think the fact that the course has 24 holes accounts for some of the variance.

I totally agree with you that descriptive value of the foliage setting is much more important than SSE.

However, I have seen many courses with a lot less trees that this one being called moderately wooded. There is a big lack of consistency in what people deem to be "lightly", "moderately" and "heavily". We have delved into this in other threads.

 

[MikeK]

LoL, yeah I see Tim has changed back the course to Lightly Wooded again, I guess he doesn't value the course designer's input very much Happens a lot, guess since my name ain't Houck or Kennedy I don't know anything about course design We've done extensive planting of trees out there and I agree with Dave that this course is more wooded than a lot of courses claiming to be "moderately wooded." But hey, Dave, maybe you and I just don't have a lick of sense between us.

I have extensive experience with ratings (have the google docs to prove it if you're interested). Calculated ratings for the SN for 6 months last year (about 70-80 tournaments in all) and have the data to back up my claims that the DGCR rating for this course is off 60-75 points. Yes, it is likely from all the OB on the course.

 

[timg]

Feel free to change it back if you really think it's "Moderately Wooded". Like Dave said, everyone has their own take on exactly what that means. I wasn't aware that it was your course, I just looked at the pics and made a call based on that.

Also, you say the round rating is 60-75 points off, is the SSE close to the SSA?

 

[Dave242]

I took a look at the PDGA events there, but from the data I see (don't feel like researching the SN message boards) I cannot tell what layouts were used. DGCR SSE (lightly wooded) = 60.8

Pot of Gold 2008 - 72, 70 (SN page)
Pot of Gold 2009 - 66, 69 (SN Page)
Pot of Gold 2010 - 53.5, 55.5 (SN Page)
Pot of Gold 2011 - 48, 51 (SN Page)

Assuming the last 2 events were 18 holes that were representative of the entire course, 54.5 average on 18 equates to 72.7 and 49.5 avg => 66.

It seems the SSE is indeed estimating too low.

edit: Just saw timg's post and changed it to Moderately wooded. Now SSE = 65.9.

 

[MikeK]

No worries eh.

Upon review it looks like the DGCR ratings are off by 35-50 points, not as many as I first imagined but likely enough to warrant a change to moderately wooded to improve DGCR rating accuracy. The SSA for a round will always vary don't ya know. Most events at Lafreniere the SSA is around 65, so on average the SSE is off by about 4 strokes.

Does DGCR use the reported wind conditions as part of the round score?

 

[MikeK]

LoL Dave I see we were typing at the same time and now the moderately wooded setting has moved the DGCR SSE into a more accurate range.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Dave242]

Yeah - I think the SSE of 66 is close to the 68-70 range it looks like SSAs come in at typically......when you take out the OB throws this course could stroke you with. I think it is in the "respectable" range given given SSE is calculated solely on Length and Foliage (nope - no special compensation for wind.....or terrain, fast greens, OB, windmills, etc).

BTW, I was expecting a more colorful and creative and funny response to timg changing your change. You have given me a lot of belly laughs over the years (recently your cracks about Shive's teeth).....but I have yet to be on the receiving end. Glad you like DGCR & the SSE function.