Salient Discs Catalyst, Medium Backpack

[Mike C]

Is there an ETA on the antidote? Do you know if it will be run in the same plastic as the Prometheus or a different plastic?

 

[steinkecm]

Just the same old trolls, no big deal.
And for the guys still screaming its late, I don't believe there was ever a concrete date set.

The banner at the top of the site said October. They haven't even hit land yet.

This is the same exact thing that was going on with their shoes - at least in terms of "promising" a release date and then having it change.

DgFanatic told me, in the shoe thread, that a "company has the right to push back the date of a product to get it right."

Oh, that part I get. I think that it is absolutely pertinent that a company release the best possible product they have the ability to. It not only leads to satisfied consumers, but is strengthens the brand's image considerably.

However, when each product a company attempts to release is pushed back (no matter how slight) it negatively affects that company's brand.

I don't think there is a problem whatsoever with taking your time on a product. It simply causes problems when you flippantly mention a possible release date and then pretend it didn't happen.

And in terms of the comments here about me hating Salient specifically, that's not true -- at least in its entirety. I dislike the fanboy-esque nature with which these threads are being conducted. No one is allowed to be critical or to have a question. Discussion is effectively disallowed by your quick, apparently all-knowing responses. If you would let your client base have a critical discussion, you would learn much about what they want and have information that cannot be under-valued. You will learn just as much, if not more, from those who do not like your current product as you will from your friends and closest supporters.

This is supposed to be a place where we can all come and discuss disc golf -- that includes our frustrations, negative opinions and things that don't necessarily sit well with you. That doesn't mean they should get labeled as "hate" or get squashed just because you don't agree with them.

The shoes were mentioned to be released late summer or early fall. That time has come and is now gone. The show release didn't happen. The disc was late. I'm simply commenting with what I'm observing. I understand that it might be frustrating, but remember this: I am a consumer. I am a possible customer. If you run around and treat your customer base poorly based on the fact they have negative feedback about your brand, it's only a matter of time before they will no longer consider your product viable.

And on the off-chance you're not actually connected with the company in any official capacity, this might be the time where Kilgus realizes the impact that your constant comments and "answers" will have on his brand.

At this point, the bags aren't being pushed back to "make them right."

The company went the cheap route for shipping, and is paying the price for it. Reasonable consumers get that part. But they also get the shaft because of it.

What the people who are frustrated by it don't seem to be able to understand -- myself included -- is why Salient doesn't seem to want to do anything about it. They refuse to let people out of pre-orders, even though Salient didn't hold up their end of the bargain. They think that throwing in a free disc will make everything right again. You can't just buy your way out of mistakes. You have to own up to them. Otherwise, you're furthering your negative brand equity to the point where people do not want to buy from you.

If even one customer feels neglected and mistreated, for legitimate reasons, then the company has failed in some sense. At least when there is no effort for retribution other than sending DgFanatic to be crucified because Chris won't own up to his mistakes.

If Salient was a company doing things right by their customers, then we would all be trolls. But they're not. At this point, the bags might not even make it into some people's hands by December.

I can't even imagine the backlash that could happen if there's something wrong with these bags.

Either way, no matter how "nice the bags are going to be" Salient continues to over-promise and under-deliver. You can only do that so many times before people move on.

Salient is drowning in negative brand equity and I'm not sure the Catalyst was designed to float.

 

[chrz]

You can't just buy your way out of mistakes. You have to own up to them. Otherwise, you're furthering your negative brand equity...

The steinkecm brand equity has been negative from day one, so I'm guessing you don't see the need to own up to your mistake of continually spreading negativity throughout this website.

For the third time...GO AWAY!!

 

[mattc]

I am a customer.
I am very satisfied with the way this preorder type sale is going.
I knew going in that late Oct. was an estimate on delivery date.
They were making changes to the bag in accordance with the.customers wishes.
Creating a delay in the production bags being made.
Has everyone forgot about the whole mini pocket add on?
So now the bags are made like everyone wanted, and they are on their way.
I am happy.

 

[rallyguy]

I am a customer.
I am very satisfied with the way this preorder type sale is going.
I knew going in that late Oct. was an estimate on delivery date.
They were making changes to the bag in accordance with the.customers wishes.
Creating a delay in the production bags being made.
Has everyone forgot about the whole mini pocket add on?
So now the bags are made like everyone wanted, and they are on their way.
I am happy.

I'm with mattc. I preordered probably later than most but am content to sit and wait as my bag floats across the ocean to me. It'll get here and when it does I'll enjoy it.

For me, I weighed buying a different bag that I could get more quickly against the price and features of this one. For me the wait will be worth it. If people feel differently that's a bummer. If you preordered a bag and are pissed about the wait, sell it when you get it and buy something different. All the back and forth here isn't going to get anything here quicker and probably won't make anyone feel better.

 

[iacas]

I am a customer.
I am very satisfied with the way this preorder type sale is going.
I knew going in that late Oct. was an estimate on delivery date.
They were making changes to the bag in accordance with the.customers wishes.
Creating a delay in the production bags being made.
Has everyone forgot about the whole mini pocket add on?
So now the bags are made like everyone wanted, and they are on their way.
I am happy.

I'm with mattc. I preordered probably later than most but am content to sit and wait as my bag floats across the ocean to me. It'll get here and when it does I'll enjoy it.

For me, I weighed buying a different bag that I could get more quickly against the price and features of this one. For me the wait will be worth it. If people feel differently that's a bummer. If you preordered a bag and are pissed about the wait, sell it when you get it and buy something different. All the back and forth here isn't going to get anything here quicker and probably won't make anyone feel better.

I second that. Or third it.

Sorry, steineckm, but very few people who pre-ordered a bag seem to care as much as you do, and virtually all of us seem content with the process.

The October date was an estimate, not a promise or an agreement.

 

[tdschrock1]

I'm with mattc. I preordered probably later than most but am content to sit and wait as my bag floats across the ocean to me. It'll get here and when it does I'll enjoy it.

For me, I weighed buying a different bag that I could get more quickly against the price and features of this one. For me the wait will be worth it. If people feel differently that's a bummer. If you preordered a bag and are pissed about the wait, sell it when you get it and buy something different. All the back and forth here isn't going to get anything here quicker and probably won't make anyone feel better.

Agreed.

I'm not upset about the wait. I am impatient (which is not salient's fault.)

 

[chrz]

^^I'm with these guys.

 

[dgar]

Thanks to all that have posted.. Ive been in the market for a backpack and this thread has taught me one thing.. do not pre-order. I'm the type that likes instant gratification... especially when spending my money. Sure a week or two wait, I can stand that.. but months ? not for me, Im sure others are different. I hope all that have waited this long really enjoy their bags.

 

[KHud06]

I agree too, after reading other pre ordered bag threads i was hopeful for a quick delivery but expecting to wait, and if going by sea saved me 10 bucks I'm okay with that, my money is more important then my time in regards to this bag, as that was a huge selling point with me.
from day two of having money invested with salient i have nothing but great things to say about the customer service i have received. They handled a shipping address issue i had the same night i emailed them and have gotten back to me in a timely matter the few other times i have emailed them also. Nothing but high hopes and excitement on my end.

 

[New013]

I'm steamed

 

[steinkecm]

Unfortunately, I didn't actually say that.

 

[MrGlass01]

If anyone has reading comprehension skills they could see that stanky is not trolling to troll there are some valid points. The delivery is suspect but the message is a good one and should be read by salient. Sorry but it's true. This thread should be done of a lesson as to what not to do.

 

[cam111366]

If anyone has reading comprehension skills they could see that stanky is not trolling to troll there are some valid points. The delivery is suspect but the message is a good one and should be read by salient. Sorry but it's true. This thread should be done of a lesson as to what not to do.

^^^^^^^^

 

[Bacon]

All I wanted on my bag was a freaking refund so I could move on from this deal and I would have been happy. I have asked them 3 times, and each time i have been told no. I understand they don't refund pre-orders but I also understand they are not delivering in the said time frame. So tell me Salient Lovers because I know you will defend that , oh its a new run, or oh sea freight takes a long time, why do I have to honor my end of the agreement but they don't?

I've defended salient on alot of things but I personally dont agree with this move. I understand their stake in it and i know business have the right to deny refunds. HOWEVER given the circumstances I feel refunds should have been an option. :/

 

[cam111366]

I've defended salient on alot of things but I personally dont agree with this move. I understand their stake in it and i know business have the right to deny refunds. HOWEVER given the circumstances I feel refunds should have been an option. :/

Honestly I think maybe they are just to broke to give refunds

 

[iacas]

I've defended salient on alot of things but I personally dont agree with this move. I understand their stake in it and i know business have the right to deny refunds. HOWEVER given the circumstances I feel refunds should have been an option. :/

Why?

The bag was estimated to be here in October. We're now one week in November and the bag was delayed because of an improvement.

If you pre-ordered you saved, what, $20? That's the risk you took to save $20 - that the estimate would be an estimate and was not a guarantee. If you want a guarantee on stock levels and thus arrival time, you pay the extra $20.

 

[onemilemore]

Why?

Good faith, for one. Looking flexible and willing to work with consumers is a major reason people decide to stick with a brand or not.

Secondly, it does give off the impression that Salient is not solvent with their funds and cannot afford to issue a refund. I am not saying that is the case, but it looks bad.

Finally, this guy probably would never have said anything negative about Salient if they had issued his refund. Instead, they get someone who is less than satisfied with his experience commenting in this thread, possibly deterring other potential customers. That alone should be reason enough to refund someone.

I know there are people here who have preordered and are more than happy to wait. That doesn't mean people who are dissatisfied simply have to sit back and twiddle their thumbs when their bags are, by most reasonable estimates, late.

 

[cam111366]

So if you order right now full price you have a guarantee? I know for a fact at least one person received a refund he told me.

 

[iacas]

Good faith, for one. Looking flexible and willing to work with consumers is a major reason people decide to stick with a brand or not.

Eh, doesn't float my boat. No reason to require a refund. They were pretty clear about no refunds. It was one of the trade-offs for saving a few bucks.

Secondly, it does give off the impression that Salient is not solvent with their funds and cannot afford to issue a refund. I am not saying that is the case, but it looks bad.

I only think it "gives that impression" if you want to see things in a poor light. I think they can afford a few $119 refunds.

Asking for a refund isn't holding up the customer end of the bargain. You get to save money, but you have to commit it in advance and with only an estimated arrival date.

If everyone or even a significant portion demanded refunds for missing the estimated arrival date, the company would stop doing refunds, and everyone who has no problem with refunds would stop benefiting from them.

Finally, this guy probably would never have said anything negative about Salient if they had issued his refund. Instead, they get someone who is less than satisfied with his experience commenting in this thread, possibly deterring other potential customers. That alone should be reason enough to refund someone.

The customer isn't always right. In this case, sure, I'd have probably made an exception. That doesn't mean he deserves one or is owed one. And they may place different value judgments on whether to offer a refund than you or I.

I've sold software for years. Sometimes we refund someone's cash, sometimes we don't. It all comes down to a value judgment. If you've had our software (which has a demo) for six months and you write to complain that it doesn't have a feature you wanted, we're probably going to decline your request to get a refund. In many other cases, even though we know full well we can't revoke their license (we could in future versions, but they could always refuse to upgrade), but we refund anyway.

I know there are people here who have preordered and are more than happy to wait. That doesn't mean people who are dissatisfied simply have to sit back and twiddle their thumbs when their bags are, by most reasonable estimates, late.

I disagree that it's reasonable to call them "late."

They shipped in October. They were delayed slightly from an estimate to make them better.

No firm date was ever offered. It was just an estimate, and as customers we had to decide whether we'd want the bag at a reduced cost but with only an estimate and a rough idea what the bag would be like based on some photos, descriptions, and possibly past history with PF bags.

I'd also encourage the person to reach out to them directly via the contact page rather than posting here. I can complain all I want about my car always resetting into album repeat mode instead of staying on shuffle mode between drives, but until I complain directly to the car company, there's little chance my feedback has actually been heard.

P.S. For all we know, 20 people got refunds. You don't know. I don't know. For all either of us know 20 people contacted them directly and got refunds.