Sandtrap???

[john1bl]

I usually play Valarta-ast in Madison WI where they have mound on the first hole and last 9. During the last tournament the area around the mounds and the mounds themselves were OB sort of. Stroke penalty but you had to throw from where it lied. This got me thinking about a type of "sand trap" that would be used in disk golf.

The trap would be near a landing zone or by the green. They would have to be well marked and a disk that in on the line would be considered in the trap and there is no relief from the trap. A player would have throw there disk and not go past there lie (like in the circle rules).

I think this rule could be used to make greens bigger or odd shaped or to make the long hole lading area a little smaller.
This is just a idea for a rule. Any thoughts???

 

[DavidSauls]

(1) It's disc.
(2) Changing the circle to a TD-defined green has been discussed. However, it would be an awful lot of work, for very minimal penalty. It's not hard to maintain balance from 50'.
(3) The closest thing to a sandtrap would be an area marked as casual relief, which forces you to move back and have a longer putt.

 

[ferretdance03]

They used areas marked as Hazards in this manner at USDGC this year.

 

[john1bl]

(1) It's disc.
(2) Changing the circle to a TD-defined green has been discussed. However, it would be an awful lot of work, for very minimal penalty. It's not hard to maintain balance from 50'.
(3) The closest thing to a sandtrap would be an area marked as casual relief, which forces you to move back and have a longer putt.

The beer is working
I like your points but what about in the middle of the fairway, on longer holes. Where you can't go past your lie ie stand and deliver.

 

[Steve West]

...
(3) The closest thing to a sandtrap would be an area marked as casual relief, which forces you to move back and have a longer putt.

Which happens to be the rule for the actual sand traps at Fort Snelling.

 

[DavidSauls]

The beer is working
I like your points but what about in the middle of the fairway, on longer holes. Where you can't go past your lie ie stand and deliver.

It might have the desired effect. But it would affect different players to different degrees. So some players who already S&D, or forehanders, would be less affected. Like the hazards at USDGC, it might seem a bit.....contrived.

Sandtraps work in golf because the playing surface matters. For us, not so much. Because our game is basically played in the air, the closest think to a sandtrap is a patch of trees, open enough to allow some sort of shot or possibly even a heroic shot, but dense enough that you don't want to land in there, for fear of losing a stroke, or worse.

Ultimately, you have to ask if the game is better with a contrived sandtrap of some sorts---casual relief, hazard area, special stance rule, whatever. Is it something we should try to emulate from golf, or just something that works better for golf than disc golf?

 

[pauldst]

Sandtraps work in golf because the playing surface matters. For us, not so much. Because our game is basically played in the air, the closest think to a sandtrap is a patch of trees, open enough to allow some sort of shot or possibly even a heroic shot, but dense enough that you don't want to land in there, for fear of losing a stroke, or worse.

Ultimately, you have to ask if the game is better with a contrived sandtrap of some sorts---casual relief, hazard area, special stance rule, whatever. Is it something we should try to emulate from golf, or just something that works better for golf than disc golf?

This makes me wonder about the possibility of "air traps". Something like a strong fan blowing up in the air, or across in an area of the fairway or green probably is not practical, though (and could be considered gimmicky). Otoh, it is possible to use obstacles or terrain to channel wind, or change, deaden, or create air turbulence, making air traps of a sort.

Deer Run DGC in Sidney, NE, has a couple of examples of this, though I don't know if the course was designed with this in mind. I think it is on hole 3 (or maybe 2 or 4, I can't remember for sure) that the basket is right on the other side of a row of pine trees. Since it is hard to hit the gaps between the trees, and the trees grab the discs and try to hide them from you , the best play seems to be to drive and approach to a spot where you can putt through the gap in front of the basket 10 to 15 feet. What I discovered on my putt was that it is a lot windier on the other side of that row of trees. On Hole 8, the basket is at least a couple of hundred down between two rows of trees, the two rows starting maybe fifty feet or so ahead and to the left, and going left from there. The day I played there was wind at the tee, but the tunnel was dead, but I'm guessing that there might be times when the wind would get funneled one way or t'other between the trees. Come to think of it, some of the valley shots at Swope Park in KC, particularly 7-11, have "air traps", as the wind is frequently very bad in the valley, but not at either end.

I wonder how much this sort of thing is intentional in course design....

 

[scarpfish]

My old home course has actual sandtraps around some of the baskets. Its the only course in the world I've ever seen with them. The lcoal rule (not a PDGA one) if you land in one is that you have to throw upside down, or any throw with your thumb on the bottom of the disc. They are not as well maintained as their counterparts on the ball golf course across the road, so they kind of turn into dirt traps when its dry and mud traps when its rainy. These pics were taken over a year ago.

As for the OP's suggestion, I don't think the idea of making in circle rules apply in the trap would be much deterrent to good putters unless you had something in the trap that could upset their footing, like mulch, lava rock, loose gravel, etc. But I do like the idea of making putting "greens" asymmetrical and/or something other than a circle.

 

[DavidSauls]

But I do like the idea of making putting "greens" asymmetrical and/or something other than a circle.

With some clause to keep the Stand-&-Deliver fanatics from defining it all the way out to the tee.

 

[john1bl]

David I was thinking the S&D would be the equivalent of a sand lie. The S&D may not be a good enough "penalty" but I think adding a throw is too much.
Scarp I do believe that greens should be shaped differently for each hole. How about very rough concrete, that has bumps and valleys but not enough to kill ankles.

 

[john1bl]

With some clause to keep the Stand-&-Deliver fanatics from defining it all the way out to the tee.

I see S&D as having a special place IE the sand trap, but not all the way to the tee. even if the green is allowed to change shape there should be a limit to the distance from the basket. I would suggest that the max distance from the edge of the green to hole would be 15 meters.

 

[pauldst]

Roots DGC in Salt Lake City has sand traps left from when it used to be a ball golf course. I landed in the one close to 14. I haven't seen any mention of special rules pertaining to the sand traps. :/

 

[DavidSauls]

I see S&D as having a special place IE the sand trap, but not all the way to the tee. even if the green is allowed to change shape there should be a limit to the distance from the basket. I would suggest that the max distance from the edge of the green to hole would be 15 meters.

That's the kind of special clause I was thinking of.

The problem is that specified greens would be a lot of trouble for not much payout. Either you make it permanent, which is labor and materials, or you mark it for tournaments, which is labor. Heck, marking circles is a pain. If you do it for one or two holes, it wouldn't be too bad; but an entire course, it adds up.

With the result that it wouldn't make much difference, anyway. If there's a spot where you land 25' from the basket and get to follow through or jump putt, it's not going to increase the percentages much. If you land 40' from the basket and are free to follow through or jump putt, it's only going to be a slight advantage, at best.

So you'd be doing a lot of work, and a rules change, to change putting percentages in certain areas around the green by a few percentage points.

It would look cool, and wouldn't do any real harm of the PDGA allowed TDs to try it, but I doubt it would make much difference in the play.