Should we lower the rim width/speed regulations for distance drivers?

[Bogey B.O.B.]

A long distance drive is a beautiful thing.

That said, the current disc technology that will likely continue to improve and the true athletes that are being drawn to our support are stretching our courses longer and longer.

I used to see the fact that disc golf required far less pristine land as a great selling point for communities and property owners. Let alone the minimal environmental impact and the ease of play without motorized carts.

Today we are starting to clear trees for 1000'+ fairways on which we want well manicured grass that may require pesticides and erosion control. Is this where we want our sport to go? Is it better to play amongst the trees in a more natural setting? Is the possibility of throwing a 700' roller that important to us?

I am all for modernizing the game and growing the sport but also feel that we should learn from what we've seen with ball golf. Their courses come at high financial and environmental costs.

I would argue that a 400' drive in the 90s was just as beautiful to us as a 600' drive is today. There is a reason other sports do not allow you to use a super ball off the tee or cork in your bat.

FYI, I would not consider myself a noodle arm. I do better than average in my age bracket. I am not just whining because I can't do it.

I suppose the bigger question is, how large and manicured do we want our courses to be? This may all sound very serious but I do not expect a change. I'm really just pokin' the bear and stepping back.

Cheers

 

[Alexplz]

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133681

Check out that thread for an interesting discussion about pro distance.

I think it's at the end of the video I linked that suggested that the way to balance crazy long drives is actually to shrink the distance of holes. This nerfs the advantage that comes from throwing far and making eagle.

 

[ilmcgee]

I don't think it's just about long drives. I think it's about keeping the integrity of the sport. A lot enjoy the sport because the courses are smaller and more integrated with nature. And that is more in line with how the sport started. Sure big drives are fun, but so are secluded technical courses.

 

[slowplastic]

I think it would only make windy rounds hard to watch for the pro's, in comparison to what they are able to throw now. Fast stable discs through a headwind are a big advantage.

Other than that...I dunno. Simon can throw putters over 450'. That's farther than most any normal player can throw any disc ever.

I can't wait to see the new starter pack challenge from CCDG and see how far they throw those things.

Again I think it'd just hurt some weird low lines/hard skip shots at distance, and really come into play on windy days.

As far as normal players, most people would probably do much better if they couldn't throw high speed discs.

 

[DavidSauls]

I don't think it's just about long drives. I think it's about keeping the integrity of the sport. A lot enjoy the sport because the courses are smaller and more integrated with nature. And that is more in line with how the sport started. Sure big drives are fun, but so are secluded technical courses.

Those courses aren't going away.

And at least around here, as new courses are built, only a few are bomber courses.

The PDGA drew a line on rim width, so I don't know how much further the technology is going to go. I can't imagine it being rolled back, though.

 

[JC17393]

Two things...

One, we already have had a limit on rim width, which the manufacturers have already maxed out. Rims aren't going to continue to get wider any more.

Two, the toothpaste is out of the tube and there's no getting it back in. Restricting rim width further and in the same motion making 100+ molds illegal for competition would have a disastrous effect on the marketplace. This isn't like in ball golf where they outlawed anchored putters and impacted a small fraction of the players in the game...everyone throws wide rim, high speed drivers. I'm just not seeing folks being okay with giving up their Destroyers and Forces and D4s and Ballistas.

Also, our game doesn't have to trend to bigger courses with more open fairways that require more upkeep. There's no reason we have to move away from our wooded fairways. Seems to me that building 1000 foot manicured fairways and creating chances to throw 700 foot rollers is a design choice that is entirely independent of disc manufacturing standards.

 

[Hampstead]

 

[Bogey B.O.B.]

Yep, he did that and it was an amazing tailwind exhibition throw. I wonder why he doesn't do that all the time.??? Also, this illustrates my point, he didn't throw it 650' did he.??? ;-)

 

[Shamis]

Simon lizotte can throw a putter 500 feet. You aren't gonna stop this by banning high speed drivers.

 

[Bogey B.O.B.]

Simon lizotte can throw a putter 500 feet. You aren't gonna stop this by banning high speed drivers.

OK, one more time. Yes, he can throw a putter 500 feet but he can throw a high-speed driver over 850 feet. Do you see the difference there?

chuckles ;-)

 

[SD86]

This came to my mind during the par debates, and it applies here: I've come to accept that there are players so far ahead of everyone else that there is nothing we can do to narrow that gap nor limit those super players (McBeth, McMahon, Lizotte, etc.). Any course built to challenge them will simply be too much for the vast majority of other players (including pros), and any course that is fair for most will be inadequate to truly challenge the superstars.

So there's no reason to limit the equipment beyond what's been done, because it simply will not matter. And TPTB will have to decide what they want and who'll they will cater to with regard to courses.

 

[tylerc]

I would like to see more longer tighter wooded courses. I think that keeping the current rim width is good. As the rim width increases the difficulty in controlling the disc gets harder so if we limit the rim width of discs smaller then courses would need to lose a lot of the change in angle required to navigate them. I also think that until disc golf is big enough to afford nice land to make these large wooded courses too really challenge pros, we will just need to settle for what we have. I would love a course with the final scores ending up like they did at the SFO this las week but the course be completely in the woods.

More emphasis must be put on pros ability to hit gaps and flight lines than just distance placement or accuracy. The best of both worlds would challenge distance and accuracy but that course would also be pretty giant. 99% of people would hate to play it so it would need multiple tees and much more land than parks are willing to give up.

Keep the rules how they are and figure out how to have disc golf make more money.

 

[biscoe]

IMO we would be better off if rim width had been limited to t-bird or so but it is too late to put the cat back in the bag at this point.

 

[ilmcgee]

IMO we would be better off if rim width had been limited to t-bird or so but it is too late to put the cat back in the bag at this point.

This

 

[Bogey B.O.B.]

IMO we would be better off if rim width had been limited to t-bird or so but it is too late to put the cat back in the bag at this point.

Why is it too late? This sport is still in relative infancy. People are still debating the design of targets, rules and par. I don't think it would hurt the market in any significant way as long as you provide ample advance notice. Speed eight, or whatever is set, would just become the new norm. The collectors would eat it up.

We may be beginning to see the limits of distance under the current regulations but you have to leave room for innovation yet unseen. I am confident that, at the least, there will be a significant improvement in consistency of flight and speed sensitivity.

I have no interest in getting political but you could compare this conversation to the argument that, when they wrote the second amendment they were thinking about muskets not missiles. Yes, this is different but right or wrong, they simply didn't understand where it might go. If it isn't written in stone should we act as if it is?

 

[JC17393]

Unfortunately the PDGA no longer publishes their approved disc list with the specs such as rim width, so I can't do an easy search of how many discs such a change would make obsolete (and speed 8 is defined as??), but I would guess it's got to be better than 35-40% of most manufacturers' lineup.

Innova's website lists what I presume are their currently in production models. They consist of 30 models they classify as speed 9 or faster out of 84 total (35.7%). The trilogy brands lists 55 discs speed 9 or faster out of 125 models (44%). Discraft has 18 discs speed 9 or higher out of 53 active models (34%).

So that's a fair chunk of what manufacturers are selling right now, and I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that some of those are their biggest sellers. There would ABSOLUTELY be a huge hit to their bottom line to force those discs out. I mean, what do they do with the obsolete inventory?

 

[mizunodave]

We run a putter only tournament on July 4th. Nothing stopping folks from running a Speed Limit event. If everyone decided it was better it could catch on on tour. (Not going to happen but..)

 

[Casey 1988]

There was in the 2000's during the Bigger rim speed wars when the PDGA made a with max was talk at PDGA making all molds that had the width of the ORC and shorter, more due to the safety of players on the course and in tournaments getting hit with a disc that needs a ton of power/speed to be thrown to have the right flight path. A speed limit tournament of say nothing above a 9 speed would only take a Destroyer mold out of my bag as 9 speed for newer brands and or disc is where they draw the line on discs being fairway to then drivers on the disc. I would then have to get a Thunderbird to use as my disc that flies like a Destroyer in that respect for wind driving shots.

 

[Bogey B.O.B.]

I remember when the orc, beast and such came out a lot of people were like "WHOA, this is getting out of hand".

 

[Casey 1988]

I would like to see par eliminated all togther and score be the thing that you are judged on solely. The other is see courses that are a mix of different shots and not just the same thing or having to make a Pray and Throw woods course to have scores be more equal, just do not make the few true open shots long bombers only as then you are then catering to the pro player only.