[Innova] Thunderbird

[smarkquart]

My star Thunderbird starts to fade much earlier than my champs. The star version is just slightly shorter even with the stronger fade. I can't wait to break this one in or find a nice beat star thunderbird.

I hope it works out for you, but it did not look like it was going to for me. As with any disc I think I am going to love, I immediately go out and purchase 4 to 5 of them, usually with part of the money I gained from selling off the 4 to 5 of the previous disc I thought I was going to love.

In this case, once I noticed that it was tremendously more high speed overstable, not just stable, than my Champions, I used only one exclusively to see if it would beat in. I used it every shot, I used it as a fun or mulligan shot whenever I could, but even then it did not appear to be making any difference. Now, I am only talking about three to four weeks, so maybe if I had given it more time, but as of now it was costing me throws on the scorecard.

For example, we have a new winter course here that is a converted golf course. That means there are numerous manufactured OBs as well as small ponds and traps. One shot requires a 300+ foot shot over the water if you do not want to immediately go to the drop zone (which has only a 100 foot carry). There was a noticeable headwind, so I avoided throwing my Trespass which could easily carry 380, if not 410. I can routinely get Thunderbirds to 360 to 380, so more than enough to carry this water with room to spare. The Star Thunderbird immediately dove and died on the ice about 5 feet from shore. Now, I had frustration on my side and had to prove I could make it, so a mulligan shot with my Champion Thunderbird held truer and cleared the shore with almost 50-60 feet to spare, and directly on target with the basket.

Later in the round we have a shot where the basket is hugging the shore of another pond. There is more enough room to stay right and clean, but if you want to run the basket, you have to clip over the corner of the pond. RHBH run the danger of fading onto the pond as the basket is 320 out, and if you tempt the pond you need at least 300 into a headwind. Star Thunderbird made about 270 before being caught in the wind, rocketed up, but then dove hard into its fade. I am surprised it did not crack the ice considered how hard it hit in the middle of the pond. I came back to the hole the following week, threw the Champion Thunderbird, and despite what I felt was a horrendously underpowered throw, I parked the basket for a tap in birdie.

 

[SD86]

I hope it works out for you, but it did not look like it was going to for me.

To update: I threw my Star and Champ Thunderbirds (among other discs) at the range. The Champ Thunderbird has a bit more glide as it fades out and seems more smooth. HOWEVER, I found that if I gave the discs some slight anny, creating helix shot and therefore better distance before the fade, the Star Thunderbird got more distance than the Champ Thunderbird.

So I'm still working with the Star Thunderbird, but the point may become moot if the Saint I have on order works out well in the same situations I've been throwing the Thunderbird....

 

[ranger]

I just tried a 167 thunder. Waaaay different than the heavy ones.

 

[smarkquart]

So I'm still working with the Star Thunderbird, but the point may become moot if the Saint I have on order works out well in the same situations I've been throwing the Thunderbird....

What Saint do you have or are getting? Last year when I wanted to be all Trilogy, I threw numerous Saint Pros and now that I reflect back, I would say that was the closest; shorter and slower, but same flight path as my Champions.

 

[smarkquart]

In the last two weeks, thanks to Champions not being produced in the colors I want to have in my tournament bag and Star in my color but not the stability I want, I have been contemplating trying PDs, specifically S-Line PDs. By numbers across numerous flight charts, and lets not get into the argument about numbers that is on another thread, the PD is supposed to have a little more turn. With S Line and Star being the same, and with this supposed extra stability being seen in numerous molds in Star, maybe the PD would have the point and shoot I am looking for out of a seasoned Thunderbird.

I am a color snob, preferring white because it is the easiest for me to see and film, and I have been eyeing a few white S-PDs. The issue is, that means I have to give up on the six Champions and four Star Thunderbirds I have already invested in so that I can turn around and purchase four to five S-PDs. And then if I am wrong about the PDs, well, that I am in trouble (because I had to sell the Thunderbirds in order to the PDs). These horrible winter days, with the rain/snow mix and a ton of wind have me sitting behind a computer screen instead of getting out and throwing.

 

[thechamp]

I'm using Thunderbirds as an overstable compliment to Tbirds. I didn't like the way the DX broke in but I have high hopes for a broken in star. Now bring on the pro Thunderbirds.
The Thunderbirds kicked out my Spirits after all these years.

 

[SD86]

What Saint do you have or are getting? Last year when I wanted to be all Trilogy, I threw numerous Saint Pros and now that I reflect back, I would say that was the closest; shorter and slower, but same flight path as my Champions.

Mine is not a Saint Pro, but a regular Saint. It's in Gold Line plastic and is in the upper 160s (as are my three Thunderbirds). I'm looking forward to seeing if the Saint's glide and seasoning in make it the "high glide" Speed 9 disc that I wanted the Valkyrie to be (I find the Valk's glide to not be as good as some of the Lat64 discs in the Valk's speed and stability levels). If the Saint is more overstable than that, then I'll see if it (the Saint) kicks the Thunderbird out of my bag.

 

[BirdieMachine]

In the last two weeks, thanks to Champions not being produced in the colors I want to have in my tournament bag and Star in my color but not the stability I want, I have been contemplating trying PDs, specifically S-Line PDs. By numbers across numerous flight charts, and lets not get into the argument about numbers that is on another thread, the PD is supposed to have a little more turn. With S Line and Star being the same, and with this supposed extra stability being seen in numerous molds in Star, maybe the PD would have the point and shoot I am looking for out of a seasoned Thunderbird.

I am a color snob, preferring white because it is the easiest for me to see and film, and I have been eyeing a few white S-PDs. The issue is, that means I have to give up on the six Champions and four Star Thunderbirds I have already invested in so that I can turn around and purchase four to five S-PDs. And then if I am wrong about the PDs, well, that I am in trouble (because I had to sell the Thunderbirds in order to the PDs). These horrible winter days, with the rain/snow mix and a ton of wind have me sitting behind a computer screen instead of getting out and throwing.

Not sure the S-PD is the answer. I think it's beefier then the Thunderbird from my experience, not a large quantity. But I did see that the CD-2 is produced in White. Might be a better option I think.

 

[ranger]

Not sure the S-PD is the answer. I think it's beefier then the Thunderbird from my experience, not a large quantity. But I did see that the CD-2 is produced in White. Might be a better option I think.

I agree with this.


I do get the weirdness with the colors but it seems kinda silly to ditch the champs if you like them. I could definitely go back to the pd if I had to but the thunderbird fits my game a bit better.

 

[SD86]

The issue is, that means I have to give up on the six Champions and four Star Thunderbirds I have already invested in so that I can turn around and purchase four to five S-PDs.

So don't sell the Thunderbirds (or sell half of your stash) and buy *ONE* (1) S-PD and test it out. If you like it then start selling and buying more to suit your needs. If not, move on to the CD-2 or whatever else might work for you.

BTW, I almost never sell discs that I've bought. I often find myself coming back to them (the Star Coyotes are about to get a rare day on the course just for the fun of it) and seeing how they do now that I've improved and/or have new needs over time. Sometimes I get some good results; sometimes , the disc goes right back in the box...

 

[smarkquart]

I agree with this.


I do get the weirdness with the colors but it seems kinda silly to ditch the champs if you like them. I could definitely go back to the pd if I had to but the thunderbird fits my game a bit better.

I know it is silly. If I look at my "best" discs, most of which hang on the wall, and were to throw them into a bag (assuming I had no issue with the possibility of losing them), it would be quite the eclectic mixture of colors. Yet as I said earlier, I am unfortunately sitting through some bad weather, greatly reducing how often I can play, giving me a chance to overthink everything.

Why I have such an obsession with an all-one color bag, I am not sure, but I want it that way. However, it has been a great source of frustration because my go-to discs are unfortunately not available in white. For instance, Bio-Fuzion does not come in white. This makes it frustrating because I use a Truth and Trespass. While a Lucid Trespass gets the job done and with a trade off of a smidge of extra stability but a touch of a loss of grip, there is a huge difference in stability between the BioFuzion Truth (which is absolutely perfect stable) and a Lucid Truth which is slower and more prone to OAT when trying to compensate for less glide.

The Thunderbird is not necessarily an essential disc in my bag but is in there to fill in the gap between the FD and Trespass, a more stable option in case of wind or the need of a flexing shot. Last year I worked through Saint Pros, new TeeBirds, and Predators in this slot. I never clicked with the Predators because I always seemed to griplock them when trying to power them up. I still have my stash of TeeBirds, but my issue with them is that the new Stars were too overstable for my liking and I only have three PFNs, one of which is on the wall. Trying to find additional ones in my weight and color is maddening and expensive. The only PFNs I could find at a reasonable price were red ones, my most detested color because I just cannot see it on the ground. Also, and more of an issue with me, but my TeeBirds were inexplicably getting airborne, like hitting an air-bounce despite no air actually doing that. I switched over to Saint Pros, which worked just fine, but against the hype of the Thunderbird being longer and faster, I sold off all the Saint Pros to get my first Thunderbirds.

My Proto-star Champion Thunderbird is almost as perfect as I would want from this disc. It is a "water blue" color, which goes against my white theme. So, whatever else I could not find in white, I purchased in this color so at least I am only running two colors. My C-FDs are in this color, and the Wombats and VRocs I tested out were also in this color. When I found white Star Thunderbirds, I was ecstatic. Now I am regretting it, so I am trying to convert back to my two color scheme.

Finally, my Truths are back in the bag and I do have both blues and blacks. My blacks fly better than blues, so if I can find black Champion Thunderbirds and C-FDs, I can call myself happy (for at least five minutes). I picked up one black Thunderbird already, I need one more.

For the record, I am only trying to color coordinate my tournament bag (white Lat Luxury E2). My normal rounds bag (Grip A14) is filled with yellows, oranges, and blues. I am not as picky there and only try to match the plastic and weight of what I carry in the E2.

 

[smarkquart]

So don't sell the Thunderbirds (or sell half of your stash) and buy *ONE* (1) S-PD and test it out. If you like it then start selling and buying more to suit your needs. If not, move on to the CD-2 or whatever else might work for you.

BTW, I almost never sell discs that I've bought. I often find myself coming back to them (the Star Coyotes are about to get a rare day on the course just for the fun of it) and seeing how they do now that I've improved and/or have new needs over time. Sometimes I get some good results; sometimes , the disc goes right back in the box...

Easier said than done. I am a teacher, so that alone should say of how little money I should be spending. And yet I cannot help myself if I truly think there is a disc that will help my game. I need five of a disc immediately; two for the tournament bag, two for my normal rounds bag, and a fifth for a back-up to put in either bag because I suffer from too much anxiety of losing a disc, having a hole in bag, and not being able to immediately replace it.

When I first started I refused to sell any disc in case I second-guessed myself. However, my inventory quickly grew out of control and I was pushing over three hundred discs. I know there are plenty of us out here whose inventory has easily surpassed that, but to have that many simply collecting dust and then trying to justify buying more, it was getting ugly at home. It is so much easier to justify getting new discs in the mail if discs are also going out in the mail. Also, even if I end up second-guessing a disc, it is much easier to live with the decision of parting with them, knowing how expensive it would be to replenish my stock, and that it would be difficult to make wholesale changes in the bag when I should be just practicing with what I have. If I have part or all of a stock I pulled out of my bag, I would be tempted to immediately go out and buy more, running the risk that I would just pull them out of the bag next week anyway.

Basically, if I can make a clean break from a disc, it is easier to purchase a new set of discs, and by being at the mercy of whether I can sell those no-longer-used discs or not, it forces to not make rash decisions about wholesale changes.

The only discs that I have and will never fully part with are Truths, TeeBirds, and Swords; two of which are not currently in my bag.

 

[SD86]

I know it is silly. If I look at my "best" discs, most of which hang on the wall, and were to throw them into a bag (assuming I had no issue with the possibility of losing them), it would be quite the eclectic mixture of colors. Yet as I said earlier, I am unfortunately sitting through some bad weather, greatly reducing how often I can play, giving me a chance to overthink everything.

Why I have such an obsession with an all-one color bag, I am not sure, but I want it that way.

Oh it's not silly. I don't limit myself to one color, but I do need bright colors that stand out enough for me to see them. Dark blue, (dark) red, purple, brown, black, etc... I can't see them even when they are sitting right under me ("if it was a rattlesnake it woulda bit me"), and searching for them is time-consuming and inconvenient to other players.

This is one very big reason I don't order from the Innova Proshop if I can't choose the color: I do put a message on the order and they normally fill it with a bright color, but I've gotten a few red and dark orange/brown discs that I struggle to find. My EchoStar Tern is the only dark disc I even think of bagging these days.

So take solace: you are not alone...

 

[ranger]

I know it is silly. If I look at my "best" discs, most of which hang on the wall, and were to throw them into a bag (assuming I had no issue with the possibility of losing them), it would be quite the eclectic mixture of colors. Yet as I said earlier, I am unfortunately sitting through some bad weather, greatly reducing how often I can play, giving me a chance to overthink everything.

Why I have such an obsession with an all-one color bag, I am not sure, but I want it that way. However, it has been a great source of frustration because my go-to discs are unfortunately not available in white. For instance, Bio-Fuzion does not come in white. This makes it frustrating because I use a Truth and Trespass. While a Lucid Trespass gets the job done and with a trade off of a smidge of extra stability but a touch of a loss of grip, there is a huge difference in stability between the BioFuzion Truth (which is absolutely perfect stable) and a Lucid Truth which is slower and more prone to OAT when trying to compensate for less glide.

The Thunderbird is not necessarily an essential disc in my bag but is in there to fill in the gap between the FD and Trespass, a more stable option in case of wind or the need of a flexing shot. Last year I worked through Saint Pros, new TeeBirds, and Predators in this slot. I never clicked with the Predators because I always seemed to griplock them when trying to power them up. I still have my stash of TeeBirds, but my issue with them is that the new Stars were too overstable for my liking and I only have three PFNs, one of which is on the wall. Trying to find additional ones in my weight and color is maddening and expensive. The only PFNs I could find at a reasonable price were red ones, my most detested color because I just cannot see it on the ground. Also, and more of an issue with me, but my TeeBirds were inexplicably getting airborne, like hitting an air-bounce despite no air actually doing that. I switched over to Saint Pros, which worked just fine, but against the hype of the Thunderbird being longer and faster, I sold off all the Saint Pros to get my first Thunderbirds.

My Proto-star Champion Thunderbird is almost as perfect as I would want from this disc. It is a "water blue" color, which goes against my white theme. So, whatever else I could not find in white, I purchased in this color so at least I am only running two colors. My C-FDs are in this color, and the Wombats and VRocs I tested out were also in this color. When I found white Star Thunderbirds, I was ecstatic. Now I am regretting it, so I am trying to convert back to my two color scheme.

Finally, my Truths are back in the bag and I do have both blues and blacks. My blacks fly better than blues, so if I can find black Champion Thunderbirds and C-FDs, I can call myself happy (for at least five minutes). I picked up one black Thunderbird already, I need one more.

For the record, I am only trying to color coordinate my tournament bag (white Lat Luxury E2). My normal rounds bag (Grip A14) is filled with yellows, oranges, and blues. I am not as picky there and only try to match the plastic and weight of what I carry in the E2.

In the mouth of madness

I've recently dipped my toe into this pool with pink discs. They are just so much easier to find for my eyes. But like you said, it's pretty frustrating when you take into account weights and different plastics. I would strongly suggest any that everyone should avoid the color coordination perseveration if possible or at least expand to three colors (red, orange, yellow).

 

[PWaggoner]

Just picked up 2 dx thunderbirds.

Nobody lied for sure.

Higher plh then any of my premium ones. Plastic is stiff and just amazing. Seemed pretty stable in my yard. Havent powered one up yet.

Ive hit some stuff with one. Damages quickly, thank goodness! I need a flippy thinderbird in my life.

 

[thechamp]

Are any of the star Thunderbirds more traditional star plastic? The two I got are an awesome blend of star that feels like it has some stiff JL mixed in.

 

[brandocommando9]

Are any of the star Thunderbirds more traditional star plastic? The two I got are an awesome blend of star that feels like it has some stiff JL mixed in.

Not 100% sure but when my local shop got their shipment all were that awesome blend same as the max weight grand slam destroyers. I really love that blend of star and hope everyone starts being molded in it.

 

[cooter]

Are any of the star Thunderbirds more traditional star plastic? The two I got are an awesome blend of star that feels like it has some stiff JL mixed in.

All of the regular production Star I've felt has been the stiffer Star we're all used to. I have a few pumpkins and a pink USDGC and they are the softer Star. The USDGC Thundy is noticeably my farthest throwing Thunderbird for some reason. I'm really digging the production Stars. Nice and stable yet still very controllable. I haven't thrown them in a stuff headwind yet to see how they hold up but it could snatch a slot from my Starfires. Thunderbirds are taking over my bag!

 

[thechamp]

Thanks. I really like the feel and flight but they get pretty slick when its cold outside. I also wanted to check out softer star thunderbirds to see if it had a little bit of a dome.

 

[ranger]

I still see the pumpkins around and they are softer than the current production.