Top 5/10 All Time Greats List

[_MTL_]

Longevity is important in this discussion. Winning worlds / USDGCs etc is very much important, but it's really only a barometer of how that person played that week. Saying that, it's silly to ignore those titles. For example, I don't automatically list Jenkins in my top 10 because he won a worlds and I don't automatically exclude Anthon because he hasn't won a major. But I would put Jenkins ahead of Anthon simply because of that title.

Saying that....
Males:
1. Climo
2. McBeth
3. Schultz
4. Doss
5. Feldberg
6. Wysocki
7. Russell
8. Greenwell
9. Rico
10. Voakes

I think eventually Eagle will jump into this list. But he's not there yet.

There is also a massive fall off after Schultz and another massive fall off after Russell. The top 7 are so clear to me it wasn't even hard to think of who those 7 were.

Females:
1. King
2. Korver
3. Peirce
4. Jenkins
5. Reading

 

[araytx]

You are correct, but I only have the knowledge and experience that I have. I would have watched all the old videos of less recent players, and I have watched what is available, but there just isnt nearly as much out there.

Then revise the thread title to the "Top 5/10 [your Era] Greats List"

 

[araytx]

Part of me thinks that Climo, Schultz, Feldberg should get dinged slightly if not more for not have the forehand skill of todays players. You may now commence with the flaming.

Rad. As in, James Conrad.

 

[biscoe]

There is also a massive fall off after Schultz and another massive fall off after Russell. The top 7 are so clear to me it wasn't even hard to think of who those 7 were.

Agreed on all counts.

Females:
1. King
2. Korver
3. Peirce
4. Jenkins
5. Reading

I would agree with this as well although might put Juliana on top.

 

[_MTL_]

I would agree with this as well although might put Juliana on top.

If we are talking about who was a better player
It's clearly JK by a mile. Her best was the best we have ever seen. Paige is the only close on that discussiion. not Elaine.

However as I stated when we are talking about best of all time I think longevity is very important and one of the most important aspects of this. The fact that Elaine is in her 50a and is on the second tier of women world wide currently is mind boggling.

Everyone always wants to debate Climo or McBeth But the real debate in disc golf is Korver or King. And it could easily in 10 years be Korver King or Pierce.

 

[gammaxgoblin]

Then revise the thread title to the "Top 5/10 [your Era] Greats List"

Or I could leave it as it is since its generating the conversation and exchange of information I was hoping for. I enjoy hearing the perspectives of others and finding out where I may be shortsighted or mistaken. Then I can understand things better =)

 

[gammaxgoblin]

Given what seems to be something said be many of today's touring pros about the level of competition increasing of the last several years to a very high level...How many x's does McBeth need, or what would he need to do, to have those who put Climo ahead of him feel he has surpassed Climo?

 

[DavidSauls]

Given what seems to be something said be many of today's touring pros about the level of competition increasing of the last several years to a very high level...How many x's does McBeth need, or what would he need to do, to have those who put Climo ahead of him feel he has surpassed Climo?

When judging of all time, don't you have to judge players in their time?

It's the same debate in baseball and other sports, and probably in rating presidents and much else. Climo was a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Courses were generally shorter, discs much different, styles different (few players threw FH & BH), players couldn't live off playing full time, and so on. If you debit him for the different time he played in, should you also speculate on how different he might have been if he'd come along now, and credit him for that?

Or maybe you don't. The thread is an open-ended question, and no one's criteria is necessarily right.

 

[Streets]

http://www.cracked.com/article_15823_the-5-wimpiest-pro-sports-injuries-all-time.html

Lol Ron Russell

 

[JC17393]

Given what seems to be something said be many of today's touring pros about the level of competition increasing of the last several years to a very high level...How many x's does McBeth need, or what would he need to do, to have those who put Climo ahead of him feel he has surpassed Climo?

More than four.

While it's true that Climo didn't have the quantity of high quality competitors that McBeth has had to beat, he still had plenty of competition. Competition good enough to beat him on occasion, yet he still pulled off nine Worlds wins in a row and 11 in 13 years. That's dominance whether there were 10 1000-rated players or 50 in the field. McBeth has been dominant at Worlds for seven years (4 wins and 3 seconds). I think he needs a couple more titles and a few more years near the top to eclipse Climo.

To me, it's a kin to Tiger Woods vs Jack Nicklaus. Tiger had deeper fields to beat, but no one could argue he was near Jack let alone better after just five or six majors (Jack has 18). Now at 14 majors, there's a reasonable case to be made.

 

[_MTL_]

While it's true that Climo didn't have the quantity of high quality competitors that McBeth has had to beat, he still had plenty of competition. Competition good enough to beat him on occasion, yet he still pulled off nine Worlds wins in a row and 11 in 13 years..

Here's a counter to that I find interesting.

Maybe the competition during Climo's run actually was better than it is now and in reality Climo was even better than we think.

Greatness very much creates the perception of a lack of competition whether it's real or not

 

[DavidSauls]

Here's a counter to that I find interesting.

Maybe the competition during Climo's run actually was better than it is now and in reality Climo was even better than we think.

Greatness very much creates the perception of a lack of competition whether it's real or not

Possible, but odds are that it wasn't.

The odds are with more talent rising out of a much larger pool of players.

 

[_MTL_]

Possible, but odds are that it wasn't.

The odds are with more talent rising out of a much larger pool of players.

I fully believe that is the case. Just pointing out that just because the same person wins left and right doesn't mean there isn't amazing players.

 

[Always Hyzer Lines]

Part of me thinks that Climo, Schultz, Feldberg should get dinged slightly if not more for not have the forehand skill of todays players. You may now commence with the flaming.

I hope you were drunk when that made it from your brain to your fingers.

 

[JC17393]

I fully believe that is the case. Just pointing out that just because the same person wins left and right doesn't mean there isn't amazing players.

That's kind of the argument I was trying to make. Just because there weren't as many high quality players doesn't mean the competition was weaker. It just wasn't as deep. Stokely and Russell and Randolph and Lissaman and Brooks and Moser and Mela and Hammock and Schultz (to name a few who were top 2-3 finishers behind Climo in the 90s) were all very very very good players. I bet all of them have victories over Ken on their resume. They just couldn't muster it at Worlds, until Russell finally did.

 

[cox3]

1. Ken Climo
2. Paul McBeth
3. Barry Schultz
4. Nate Doss
5. Ricky Wysocki

I feel like this list is pretty easy to compile at this point in disc golf history, honestly... The only other 2 players with much of an argument are Will Schusterick (3 USDGC's) and Dave Feldberg (1 Worlds/1 USDGC). Wysocki has spent much more time in the discussion for best player in the game, though. 1-4 just have way better resumes overall.

 

[gammaxgoblin]

I hope you were drunk when that made it from your brain to your fingers.

haha not drunk but shortsighted in retrospect. Someone posted the inverse (what if those players played when developing FH was "important") and that makes me think that given their ability they would have had had little trouble in refining the skill to a high level. So now im thinking how good would Climo et al. have been with a vicious FH in addition to that savage BH skill? Like others have said as well, not unlike J Conrad, they can make their BH do amazing things which players who rely on FH dont have to or havent had to develop.

 

[_MTL_]

1. Ken Climo
2. Paul McBeth
3. Barry Schultz
4. Nate Doss
5. Ricky Wysocki

I feel like this list is pretty easy to compile at this point in disc golf history, honestly... The only other 2 players with much of an argument are Will Schusterick (3 USDGC's) and Dave Feldberg (1 Worlds/1 USDGC). Wysocki has spent much more time in the discussion for best player in the game, though. 1-4 just have way better resumes overall.

I don't know if Will is in the top 20, much less even close to top 10.

He figured out Winthrop gold but other than that, he's really done anything worth mentioning in the best of all time conversation

 

[cox3]

1. Ken Climo (12x world champion, 5x usdgc champion, 11x player of the year, peak rating: 1044)
2. Paul McBeth (4x world champion, 2x usdgc champion, 3x player of the year, peak rating: 1056)
3. Barry Schultz (2x world champion, 3x usdgc champion, 5x player of the year, peak rating: 1039)
4. Ricky Wysocki (2x world champion, 3x player of the year, peak rating: 1051)
5. Nate Doss (3x world champion, 1x usdgc champion, peak rating: 1046)
6. David Feldberg (1x world champion, 1x usdgc champion, 2x player of the year, peak rating: 1046)
7. Nikko Locastro (1x usdgc champion, 3x player of the year, peak rating: 1046)
8. Will Schusterick (3x usdgc champion, peak rating: 1046)
9. Steve Wisecup (1x world champion, 2x player of the year)
10. David Greenwell (3x player of the year)

 

[cox3]

I don't know if Will is in the top 20, much less even close to top 10.

He figured out Winthrop gold but other than that, he's really done anything worth mentioning in the best of all time conversation

I don't care if those are the only 3 tournaments he ever won, he won arguably the biggest tournament in the world 3 different times. Other than the 7 players ahead of him on my list, only Paul Ulibarri has more career earnings. The only real knock against him is that his longevity at the top was short lived. He got there very quickly and dropped off relatively fast. But there aren't many players in disc golf history that you can even say were arguably the best player in the world at any point in their life. It's hard to even come up with 10. There are only maybe 15 guys that you could even remotely make that argument.