Typically the creative players are less skilled

[optidiscic]

I guess Duvall and McDaniel are crappy designers too

 

[scarpfish]

I've got to get out and play some of these lefty hostile courses you guys keep talking about. They sound like fun.

Around here, most courses seem the opposite of that.

 

[TheOtherBill]

I guess Duvall and McDaniel are crappy designers too

Nice troll, Troll. Not what anyone has said here except you.

Crappy or not, they want to challenge players, either by requiring shot-shaping or making a thrower expand their bag of tricks, instead of spike hyzering over everything a la Lizotte.

 

[optidiscic]

I notice that the best designers try to incorporate balance into their designs, i.e. a good blend of righty shots, lefty shots, and straight shots, begging you to improve your game to learn how to manipulate a disc to fly in every possible way.

Exactly

Course Designs should strive to not favor any specific throwing style...specific holes should provide distinct challenges that call for a specific throw or a choice between multiple clear choices... inventing a line is like deciding to make your own exit off the highway(its destructive and dangerous and proves how selfish u are) the point of this thread was that if a course had 6 straight holes 6 flicks and 6 rhbh hyzers that the limited player who cannot reach a certain green would find another line that doesnt make any sense and often plays either unsafely or destructively off the safer and intended route.

They will then try to shield behind a veil of creativity to hide their shortcomings

I can count numerous holes I have designed where players have found alternate routes
Typically I find it interesting as chances are my design is sound enough to punish the risk
My issue is the thrower who endangers others and damages the course unintentionally or intentionally by forcing his arsenal

Not sure why all the hatred aimed at me

That being said I am buying more deer fencing and safety nets will be coming
soon

My job as a designer is to make you a better player by challenging you not to appease your lack of a balanced game

 

[optidiscic]

Nice troll, Troll. Not what anyone has said here except you.

Crappy or not, they want to challenge players, either by requiring shot-shaping or making a thrower expand their bag of tricks, instead of spike hyzering over everything a la Lizotte.

Ummm yes I couldnt agree more



So confused how I am so wrong throughout this thread

But basically calling out players who are hacks but disguise themselves as clever was bound to upset the chuckers on dgcr

 

[TAFL]

So confused how I am so wrong throughout this thread

The problem arose when you said "creative players" when you meant "one-trick hacks." Your complaint wasn't actually with creative players, it was with players who try to force the single shot they can throw predictably (likely a hyzer of some sort. yes?) to work on every fairway they face.

You called out the wrong people. Had you called out the single throw hacks, there wouldn't have been a problem.

 

[Improbably]

The problem arose when you said "creative players" when you meant "one-trick hacks." Your complaint wasn't actually with creative players, it was with players who try to force the single shot they can throw predictably (likely a hyzer of some sort. yes?) to work on every fairway they face.

You called out the wrong people. Had you called out the single throw hacks, there wouldn't have been a problem.

I think creative was the correct word choice. No one thinks of themselves as "one trick hacks" but many "one trick hacks" think of themselves as "creative".

 

[optidiscic]

I think creative was the correct word choice. No one thinks of themselves as "one trick hacks" but many "one trick hacks" think of themselves as "creative".

just trying to make players aware and honest with themselves lol

 

[thatdirtykid]

I have been lurking here. I feel I have a fairly well rounded game (although I struggle on the green) but am generally categorized as a power player (like most colorado guys are on our open courses) but that said I am all for anything to make courses more difficult while still being fair. Whether its a mando (preferably less mini golf circus stuff), artificial OB or a fence or obstacle added forcing the more difficult line. There have been times that a mando removes the power line and takes away a chance for my game to have an advantage, but oh well. A lot of the time the power play is one of the bigger risk reward shots (like carrying over the OB) and the score spread ends up being smaller (less people getting the 2 and less people going OB). The "fair" part comes in when it comes to excessively tight fairways where its more poke and hope than a placement shot.

When I hear people complain about Islands, artificial OB or mandos my response is always the same. We are all playing the same course.

 

[DriveCrusher2]

For the record:

My real issue is with unskilled players forcing a shot into a tiny window that is not the standard fairway then trampling woods, damaging sapplings, breaking branches snd wirst if firming paths that other unskilled players will follow eventually a course is compromised and the initial challenge is gone

I do think its fun to be creative but better players have mastered all the shots

I cannot flick well I designed holes that are very flick friendly

My own designs kick my ass lol

I have learned to look up at thumber lines when designing

My only real grief is the carpenter who only posesses a hammer...

There are some things I agree with here and I disagree, if there is an unskilled player trying to force a shot through a tiny window, they obviously don't understand the game and need a little coaching.... Isn't that where we skilled players step in? To give them advice on the safer more productive route when they are still learning the game? My disagreement here is whether a skilled or unskilled player forces a small window they are still going to destroy vegetation. Your statement is contradicting, if there is a tiny window to begin with, I am guessing between a certain amount of trees isn't it still a tight window that people will be trying to force? I don't see someone really taking a chainsaw to these trees... Also the destruction of vegetation and saplings should be something to expect if it is a heavily wooded hole.... That is just common sense and should have been a foresight in what ever course you designed... ANY Drive can hit a tree and go into the bush, then you have to go find the disc, skilled or not, if you are throwing perfect drives every time which I am guessing you are not hence you don't have much of a forehand so you don't throw it on the fairway every time. So all in all I guess you are guilty of destroying said vegetation on your own designed courses..... That is part of a course, players break courses in, it happens. The awareness of this... I think you are focusing on the wrong thing here, I think the focus of this should be more towards getting unskilled players to think differently, because with an unskilled player they try to take the same tight window shot every time because they want to look cool and it worked for them one time. Our focus as a skilled player is to help them realize there is a larger safer window to reach the fairway. Some of us know the "local routes" to a course, thats because people play these courses constantly and find newer or better ways to reach the green, big deal! As a course designer you should be happy to have large amounts of foot traffic and people that enjoy playing your courses, show a little gratitude and thanks to the people who do play them.

 

[optidiscic]

I do not disagree with you not sure why you are preaching to me

 

[Improbably]

just trying to make players aware and honest with themselves lol

^^^ Sisyphean task

 

[hook_nuts]

Ummm yes I couldnt agree more



So confused how I am so wrong throughout this thread

But basically calling out players who are hacks but disguise themselves as clever was bound to upset the chuckers on dgcr

Changing your argument doesn't hide how bad your opinions or course designs are. Twist things if you want, you've still proven your ignorance to anyone that reads the entire thread. Maybe you've learned you were wrong or maybe you just can't admit being wrong idk.

 

[optidiscic]

Not sure where I changed

I think assumptions were made by others

But as long as my message has been voiced I am ok

-signed Sisyphus

 

[hook_nuts]

Not sure where I changed

I think assumptions were made by others

But as long as my message has been voiced I am ok

-signed Sisyphus

You've attacked or bad mouthed a broad spectrum of disc golfers. Now if your thread would've been, "screw people who physically alter courses by hand to introduce a new shot" then it would've made sense. Anything other than that is just nonsense. You were kind of acting like a one-dimensional course designer. Keep working on your game. You can still become well rounded!

 

[Mike C]

Not gonna read 8 pages of this, but I'd have to disagree with ya OP. The best players I've witnessed in person also took routes that were uncommon. That is part of what made them good. Seeing lines others didn't.

In my experience the less skilled players are less creative and adaptable. They tend to stick to one main throwing style, no matter how perfectly their shot is setup for FH / OH / rollers. Good players adapt, bad players try to brute force their way through a course with one moderately developed shot.

 

[optidiscic]

Not gonna read 8 pages of this, but I'd have to disagree with ya OP. The best players I've witnessed in person also took routes that were uncommon. That is part of what made them good. Seeing lines others didn't.

In my experience the less skilled players are less creative and adaptable. They tend to stick to one main throwing style, no matter how perfectly their shot is setup for FH / OH / rollers. Good players adapt, bad players try to brute force their way through a course with one moderately developed shot.

yep exactly

 

[Jay Dub]

In my experience the less skilled players are less creative and adaptable. They tend to stick to one main throwing style, no matter how perfectly their shot is setup for FH / OH / rollers. Good players adapt, bad players try to brute force their way through a course with one moderately developed shot.

This is what I think the OP meant.

 

[Nemmers]

I do not disagree with you not sure why you are preaching to me

Maybe because your OP (and subsequent replies) came off sounding like you're a pompous, obnoxious rating-snob who's the only one smart enough to decide how people should play their game?

Just a thought. :\

 

[optidiscic]

Maybe because your OP (and subsequent replies) came off sounding like you're a pompous, obnoxious rating-snob who's the only one smart enough to decide how people should play their game?

Just a thought. :\

I really hit some nerves thats all I noticed

ftr I wasnt trolling at all but I am glad I got my message out

albeit unintentionally hurting some feelings