Undoing years of bad habits

[Brychanus]

Playing around, doing some filming today and figured I'd upload. Not a whole lot of progress here but maybe better footage. Still having trouble with engaging my drive leg, opening too early and having my hand lead the disc rather than allowing the disc to come around. I'm naturally right handed but I keep injuring my rotator cuff (20 years as a bicycle mechanic not awesome for the shoulder) so these are lefty shots.

From a technical perspective, could anyone help me figure out why slow motion videos upload full speed unless I upload them as a "short"

https://youtu.be/ob-Mm4QqFKA (Full speed)

https://youtube.com/shorts/DYimZlQOo5c?feature=share ("Short" but keeps the slow motion)

Really would start here especially for your nondominant hand. Don't worry about the rear leg - we need to get you comfortable swinging with a shift from behind fully closed to the target and stacked on that front leg. IMO it's worth time getting a lot of the front side cleaned up since the rear side tends to have a hard time figuring out what's going on without it. Follow along here:



Compare your setup to SW - gotta get set up and swing more like him. Don't worry about putting any weight back on the rear leg at all yet.

 

[Kwahlgren]

Really would start here especially for your nondominant hand. Don't worry about the rear leg - we need to get you comfortable swinging with a shift from behind fully closed to the target and stacked on that front leg. IMO it's worth time getting a lot of the front side cleaned up since the rear side tends to have a hard time figuring out what's going on without it. Follow along here:



Compare your setup to SW - gotta get set up and swing more like him. Don't worry about putting any weight back on the rear leg at all yet.

Thanks for the feedback, I think there's a fine line between the advice to have the ankle ahead of knee, knee ahead of hip "keeping your body between your feet" kinda feeling and the form that SW is showing in the one leg drill. It sounds like you're saying I should be keeping everything behind the plant but just barely. But at the same time, the head is over the toes? In the frame you sent that's what I'm seeing from SW.

Not sure if it's related but I've been trying to do the "windmill" drill to feel what it's like to pump the arm with a squat and it feels super ugly and looks even worse on film. having a lot of trouble getting squat to drive the arm rather than squatting too late, as the arm is dropping. Also my body wants to lean back, I think to get the hip out ahead rather than going straight up and down.

https://youtu.be/cRrur15bz6c

I'll try to shoot some footage of a 1 leg standstill tomorrow and maybe film myself at tags.

 

[bryantlikes]

Not sure if it's related but I've been trying to do the "windmill" drill to feel what it's like to pump the arm with a squat and it feels super ugly and looks even worse on film. having a lot of trouble getting squat to drive the arm rather than squatting too late, as the arm is dropping. Also my body wants to lean back, I think to get the hip out ahead rather than going straight up and down.

One of the things that has been helping me figure this out is the elephant walk drill. Might want to give that a try.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487

Also shown in this video by SW22 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-KVWfUkQ3s#t=4m54s

 

[Brychanus]

Thanks for the feedback, I think there's a fine line between the advice to have the ankle ahead of knee, knee ahead of hip "keeping your body between your feet" kinda feeling and the form that SW is showing in the one leg drill. It sounds like you're saying I should be keeping everything behind the plant but just barely. But at the same time, the head is over the toes? In the frame you sent that's what I'm seeing from SW.

Not sure if it's related but I've been trying to do the "windmill" drill to feel what it's like to pump the arm with a squat and it feels super ugly and looks even worse on film. having a lot of trouble getting squat to drive the arm rather than squatting too late, as the arm is dropping. Also my body wants to lean back, I think to get the hip out ahead rather than going straight up and down.

https://youtu.be/cRrur15bz6c

I'll try to shoot some footage of a 1 leg standstill tomorrow and maybe film myself at tags.

I like Bryant's suggestion. Basically I'm trying to get you comfortable letting the whole body and swing back away from the target, then drop your weight abruptly more planted into that leading leg rather than rising.

If your leading leg resists/leverages the ground when you land, it will cause the front hip to open toward the target (sometimes you'll see that called "posting up"). Right now you already have everything open to the target early so you have no force of your weight or the ground in your swing.

Elephant walk helps with the stacking or feeling of your weight swinging, so it'll probably help you feel the difference. OLD helps with the swing mechanics over the front leg. Would choose one or both and post!

 

[Kwahlgren]

Thanks y'all, I had always thought of the ewalk as a timing drill as a timing drill and the OLD as a position drill but now I can see how they overlap. Watching my footage back it feels like I'm taking the advice to initiate the swing once the plant foot lands too literally and instead I should be waiting for my weight to "settle" and not just plant before initiating the swing. Almost feels like the swing is locking me into whatever position I was in when I initiated it. I'll try to take that information and trust that if I wait for the weight to settle it will lock me into a more efficient nose over toes position. Hopefully I'll get some footage uploaded by this afternoon.

 

[Kwahlgren]

Here's a one leg throw, feels like I'm getting over my toes a little better but still opening my hips early. Took some footage of standstills and run up throws but they're all still "posting" pretty hard, not over my toe at all so I'm not gonna bother uploading.

https://youtube.com/shorts/4zfPTr6SZyc?feature=share

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Note how your rear heel remains up, instead of moving the pressure around to it. So all your pressure is remaining stuck on your rear toes instead of being alleviated to the heel and moving pressure targetward.

2. Note how your rear hip remains extended and not sitting/moving back deeper targetward. Related to #1.

3. Also note how your lead shoulder never swings back behind the rear hip. Related to 1 and 2.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

 

[Kwahlgren]

1. Note how your rear heel remains up, instead of moving the pressure around to it. So all your pressure is remaining stuck on your rear toes instead of being alleviated to the heel and moving pressure targetward.

2. Note how your rear hip remains extended and not sitting/moving back deeper targetward. Related to #1.

3. Also note how your lead shoulder never swings back behind the rear hip. Related to 1 and 2.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

Maybe I'm misunderstanding it but I was trying to do the one leg drill here. Are you saying that even in that drill, the rear leg should be taking some weight? I think that's part of what's not allowing me to get my shoulders farther back, I'm trying to keep all the weight on my front leg and when I rotate my shoulders farther back than that it feels like I'll unweight my plant foot too much. Either way, always appreciate everyone's help.

 

[sidewinder22]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding it but I was trying to do the one leg drill here. Are you saying that even in that drill, the rear leg should be taking some weight? I think that's part of what's not allowing me to get my shoulders farther back, I'm trying to keep all the weight on my front leg and when I rotate my shoulders farther back than that it feels like I'll unweight my plant foot too much. Either way, always appreciate everyone's help.

I'm doing one leg drill in that photo, yes you are taking it too literal and not paying attention to what I said in the video about using the rear leg for leverage.

 

[Brychanus]

Watch each of the moves where he's showing shifts to/from the rear side. You should be able to get "leverage"/resistance into the rear foot toward your instep without shifting your weight all the way on top of it. It will help provide support for the backswing/allow you to get more stretch and coil through the upper body against the rear foot.

 

[Kwahlgren]

As usual, thanks for being so helpful and patient with me. I'm gonna get back to drills and prolly just wait to upload once I start seeing what y'all are describing in my own swing. Then it will just be a matter of transferring the drills back into my actual swing and not letting years of muscle memory take back over. Maybe the hardest part is that I'm pretty sure I understand what I'm doing wrong but feeling unable to correct it.

 

[Kwahlgren]

I feel like my head is still too far behind my foot here, torso leaning back, not stacked but it's feeling a little more fluid. Am I on the right track at all?

https://youtu.be/rFpK74JPUu0

 

[sidewinder22]

Motion somewhat better. Rear camera view would likely show you are setup too behind your front heel/west on tee, so your nose is more over heel, instead of nose over toes, slight hip hinge so chest is slightly forward over knees.

Setup needs to pivot rear foot to very tippy toes almost dragging ankle into extension, shin should be nearly horizontal and knees about inline with each other, very similar to walking. Likely need to move your rear foot north and west on tee.

Think about swinging your lead shoulder back and forth linearly(pendulum) as far as possible from your center without losing balance. If you hinge at the hips tilting chest forward you should be able to make it swing longer than standing straight up.

Pay attention to post #2 - walk back.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487

 

[Kwahlgren]

Motion somewhat better. Rear camera view would likely show you are setup too behind your front heel/west on tee, so your nose is more over heel, instead of nose over toes, slight hip hinge so chest is slightly forward over knees.

Setup needs to pivot rear foot to very tippy toes almost dragging ankle into extension, shin should be nearly horizontal and knees about inline with each other, very similar to walking. Likely need to move your rear foot north and west on tee.

Think about swinging your lead shoulder back and forth linearly(pendulum) as far as possible from your center without losing balance. If you hinge at the hips tilting chest forward you should be able to make it swing longer than standing straight up.

Pay attention to post #2 - walk back.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487

Thank you, I'll get to work on that. I think I need to work on more thoracic mobility as well. Unfortunately I have femoroacetabular impingement (FAI) (basically the heads of my femurs aren't round but instead cam-shaped so they don't allow internal rotation at certain angles) the more I hinge at my hips relative to my torso, the worse the impingement gets. If my hip hinge is at zero degrees, I have almost full hip mobility while at a 90 degree hip hinge I have less than 10 degrees of internal rotation. Between that and my tight T-spine I end up twisting through my lumbar spine instead so I have to find a happy medium that allows for the twist to happen through hip IR and T-spine. But after almost 20 years of playing this great game and taking long breaks for injury, I'm committed to learning a safe way to play that let's me keep at it as long as possible.

 

[Kwahlgren]

Today I experimented with thinking about "leading with my head" which, I know seems like a terrible swing thought but I think the swing thought of "leading with my hips" is part of what is causing me to "lean back" since my head and shoulders stay back and my hips have been firing through. It feels like I'm having more "dynamic balance" over my toes but I guess the video will tell the real story. Also playing around with having the phone mirrored to the tv so I get immediate feedback but trying not to actively "watch" myself on the tv. Also featured, a sleepy old dog.

Rear view
https://youtu.be/hAXj4IHHZV8

Side view
https://youtu.be/SCJfHQ0fIms

 

[Kwahlgren]

Watching my own video back I'm now seeing that I'm still finishing with my lead shoulder too high. I'll have to think about how to correct for that. At least as far as I'm seeing, I'm "finishing" in the right position but only after where my theoretical follow through would be. At the theoretical release point in the swing I'm still way behind my foot with my lead shoulder significantly higher than my trailing shoulder so I need to figure out how get into that position earlier in the swing before rotation happens.

 

[sidewinder22]

That is a lot of body movement and not much arm swing. You want a little body movement to produce a bigger arm swing.

Backswing - try to keep your rear knee inside the ankle.

Finish - make sure your trail arm follows thru finishing more upright. Your hip is still behind your ankle so your spine is more jack knifed over top and restricting the trail shoulder/arm from swinging thru.

 

[Kwahlgren]

Haven't made any progress worth posting but did enjoy this photograph of an Eagles fan demonstrating the power of linear momentum converting to angular momentum. Hope this doesn't violate forum rules.

 

[sidewinder22]

Haven't made any progress worth posting but did enjoy this photograph of an Eagles fan demonstrating the power of linear momentum converting to angular momentum. Hope this doesn't violate forum rules.

I was on South St when the sixers beat lakers game 1. Yea riots! opcorn:

 

[Kwahlgren]

Haven't made any progress worth posting but did enjoy this photograph of an Eagles fan demonstrating the power of linear momentum converting to angular momentum. Hope this doesn't violate forum rules.

It's a raucous town but I love our idiot spirit.

Re: the backhand swing, I'm starting to realize I'm at least partially a victim of THE Schusterick gif. Trying to lean back or jutting my hips ahead and never getting my weight forward and over my hips again. I found a thread from 2016 https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123638 where you address that and how you describe your standstill/1 step throw (post #7) which really helped me understand the butt wipe mechanics and how they create power. What I can't seem to get my head around is how to not get my hip way out ahead of myself when I'm wiping towards the target. I've been trying two methods, one is letting the rest of my upper body catch up to the hips before initiating the wipe away from the target and the other is trying to keep the torso/shoulders stacked on top of the hips as my butt wipes targetward. Call me an idiot but even watching the gif in the linked thread 100x I can't tell which of the two you're doing. Maybe something else entirely? I'm a little dense.