Val drops Innova?

[StevenSeagal]

Despite the fact that I was introduced to the sport by a former GF, and that my local culture is currently pretty decent at welcoming women, I have never seen a female playing a solo round in the wild (or even just a group of all women).

I have never seen a female working behind the counter at a disc golf shop... I think that plays a huge role.
I'm not even sure that I've ever seen another female IN a DG shop that wasn't there with me.

What I find maddening about the whole thing is that you can easily find women at the park by themselves or in groups doing everything but playing disc golf. Are we really that bad as a community or do we need exactly what it seems Val is pushing for, an organization or manufacturer whose core aim and operation is structured around promoting the sport to women?

 

[ranger]

This sounds very strange if you turn it around and there would be very many women playing and only a few man. And those 4-5 men would win everything and all thousands of women nothing. Just because they have a different body...
There is nothing wrong with closed division. And there are ratings.

Agreed. His argument is so weird.

 

[Nova P]

Totally agree with all of this, and the facilities issue is one I had not considered previously but def plays a role.

It's a very big problem, especially when a TD suggests that I just pee in the woods like the men do. Yeah. There's 89 men and 1 woman milling around in this stand of trees. I'll just drop my shorts and wave my cooter around behind a tree and carry a ZipLoc baggie full of my used toilet paper around with me for the rest of the round. Whee.

 

[lyleoross]

Something to consider. If you listened to Big Jerm's interview with Smashboxx - I think it was Jerm, but given my luck it was probably Paige - there was a discussion on how Prodigy drove pro compensation and even modified how Innova approached their pros. Val came to prominence before that happened and may not have benefitted from it in the way that Paige and Cat have.

 

[ranger]

I'll just drop my shorts and wave my cooter around behind a tree and carry a ZipLoc baggie full of my used toilet paper around with me for the rest of the round. Whee.

No words...

 

[ShopTom.com]

I went to the PDGA and sorted all players by ranking for 2016.

Rank Name PDGA# RatingYear Class Division Country Events Points Cash
3345 Jason LaBella 33531 953 2016 Am Advanced United States 8 3683 $0.00
3346 Sean Brookman 33066 953 2016 Am Advanced United States 3 1013 $0.00
3347 Jarrett Bussacco 33205 953 2016 Pro Open United States 4 258 $73.00
3348 Scott Crouch 18551 953 2016 Pro Masters United States 11 632 $793.00
3349 Valarie Jenkins 17495 953 2016 Pro Open Women United States 14 1200 $12,250.00
3350 Glen Oliviero 6905 953 2016 Pro Masters Canada 7 250 $363.00
3351 Glen Oliviero 6905 953 2016 Pro Open Canada 1 70 $35.00
3352 Jouni Leskinen 8790 953 2016 Pro Masters Finland 9 1472 $959.71
3353 Derek Robins 5980 953 2016 Pro Open United Kingdom 7 590 $290.13
3354 Derek Robins 5980 953 2016 Pro Grandmasters United Kingdom 3 194 $627.85

This is part of page 168.

 

[Mulligan]

What I find maddening about the whole thing is that you can easily find women at the park by themselves or in groups doing everything but playing disc golf. Are we really that bad as a community or do we need exactly what it seems Val is pushing for, an organization or manufacturer whose core aim and operation is structured around promoting the sport to women?

I mean, I find it hard myself to find guys I can stand to play with, so I totally get it.
Its not like I'm out there with a monocle and pipe, lol, but there seem to be a lot of even middle aged guys on the course that have the temperament and maturity of 13yr olds.
I'm mostly playing for exercise and playing the course for my own benefit.
Too many dudes take the whole thing WAY to seriously, if you ask me.

I was in Hazy Shade a couple weeks ago and, ironically, was looking for a new disc for my wife.
I asked the kid behind the counter a question about flight numbers and next thing I know some overweight 50 something dude (a customer) was accosting me about "what gap in her game are you trying to fill?" and "why would I buy that disc when I could get this" and yada yada yada.
Eventually I was like, look dude, I'm just getting her something to get her something... and I'm mostly basing what I get on what I think she will consider cool looking.
It was like DGCR in real life, lol, and that kind of "let me tell you what you need" pushiness is all over the game, and not the kind of approach that works well with women.

I really think that if we want more women on the course, then WE need to make that happen by inviting them and making it inviting for them. I mean, my ex GF did that for me when she took me to play my first round together.

 

[Three Putt]

You probably don't recall because her signature disc with Discraft used her maiden name: the Juliana Bower Stratus. It was Discraft's signature series. Ron Russell had the Comet and Cyclone, Scott Stokely had the XL. I believe these were the first "signature" discs Discraft ever had. Don't let the numbered one on eBay fool you, there were regular production runs along with numbered and signed ones.

I don't recall because I'm old and don't recall. She lived in Iowa when she won Am World's and used to show up in St. Louis to stuff back then. I think her husband's name was Randy? They seemed like nice folks. Her throwing style was a fluid and graceful as any I've ever seen. I actually screw up and say "Bower" when I'm talking about JK discs and totally lose people. It's the name I most associate with her since it's the name she had when I met her.

Edit: "Bower" wasn't her maiden name, it was her married name. She went back to her maiden name after her divorce.

 

[Nova P]

No words...

Well that's cryptic. No words for--

-- my shocking use of transgressive language on this genteel forum?
-- the notion that women carry around ZipLoc baggies full of TP, and sometimes that TP has pee-pee in it?
-- the stuff women sometimes have to put up with?
-- that women have cooters and may not want to risk the chance that some number of guys might want to sneak a peek?
-- something else?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Im just shocked you can wave it around!

 

[lyleoross]

The facilities. It seems to me that neither Innova, nor any manufacturer has much of a say in toilet placement. I can't speak for every event, but in some, porta potty placement relative to women is considered. Are we having a discussion on why Val left Innova, or how the sport in general doesn't meet women's needs?

It is important to realize that the sport is still in its infancy, relatively speaking. It isn't just women's needs that go unmet, so do the needs of all players. There is only so much time, resource availability, and money.

The real question for me would be did Innova fail to give Val the support merited? That is a hard measure because you can't say it should be equivalent to what Paul got. Like it or not, Paul brings more value. That is because on average men are more inclined towards physical sport than women.

BTW - the argument that Innova needs to promote the female section is frankly unfair. It's a moral argument for sure, but misdirected. The equivalent argument would be that Avon needs to invest in the male market. Men are underserved by the makeup producers and they need to invest there to make it fair. But wait you say, men aren't interested in makeup. Not true, some are and if only Avon invested there, hired male models and marketed, the segment would grow.

Innova has no obligation to invest there unless there is a market. From there, a wise company invests an amount relative to the market. I'd argue that Innova does a better job of this than Avon does....

 

[discguy42]

What I find maddening about the whole thing is that you can easily find women at the park by themselves or in groups doing everything but playing disc golf. Are we really that bad as a community or do we need exactly what it seems Val is pushing for, an organization or manufacturer whose core aim and operation is structured around promoting the sport to women?

Could it be that women as a whole don't care about playing disc golf?

I don't think that males playing have ruined it for the ladies by any stretch.

Why do we worry about women playing anyway? Fine if they do, fine if they don't.

Its not a big deal.

 

[Nova P]

Im just shocked you can wave it around!

It's a figure of speech, of course.

 

[ranger]

Well that's cryptic. No words for--

-- my shocking use of transgressive language on this genteel forum?
-- the notion that women carry around ZipLoc baggies full of TP, and sometimes that TP has pee-pee in it?
-- the stuff women sometimes have to put up with?
-- that women have cooters and may not want to risk the chance that some number of guys might want to sneak a peek?
-- something else?

None of the above

I actually misread your post. I thought you were a savage.

 

[Stable]

Could it be that women as a whole don't care about playing disc golf?

This seems to be the issue. :\

 

[Mulligan]

Why do we worry about women playing anyway? Fine if they do, fine if they don't.

Its not a big deal.

Who says DGers lack social skills?
LOL:doh:

 

[Jay Dub]

Could it be that women as a whole don't care about playing disc golf?

This seems to be the issue. :\

And that doesn't mean anyone is to blame or can flip a switch to change it.

 

[ZAMson]

Why do we worry about women playing anyway? Fine if they do, fine if they don't.

Agreed. I just don't like when they're compensated to a degree that they start valuing themselves. We're proud frolfmen, we have to be better than someone.

 

[discguy42]

Who says DGers lack social skills?
LOL:doh:

This has nothing to do with anything. I am just saying women are NOT into DG.

Women players should rise up and get other women into it. They might be more open to it by being brought in by other women.

Why do men always wish that more women played "X" sport that they are into at the time?

 

[Hampstead]

They're called lumberjacks, not lumberjills. Chucking discs at trees is a man's activity, dagnabbit!