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Women's symposium
- Thread starter VictorB
- Start date
Royalhghnss
Double Eagle Member
Just a crappy coincidence. :wall:
Ian said that it was accidental coincidence. Then Corey threw Eagle under the bus and said it was completely intentional, but it was McMahon's idea.
Basically, the Women's event just happened to be during the regularly scheduled CCDG/DGWeekly podcast.
Super sorry about that, and please believe me when I say it was unintentional. I honestly had no idea it was happening until an hour before we were set to cast, and by then the train had left the station. We were gonna do it tonight, but then my wife reminded me we had plans, so last night was the only night that worked for everyone.
My bad :doh:
PBokor
Eagle Member
I only made it through the first two segments (education and leagues) before succumbing to sleep. I really liked both and will watch the rest later today.
To Zoe's point about introducing kids in elementary school to DG, perhaps a good start would be to design new courses with kids and novices in mind and maybe retrofit some existing courses as well.
For example, we're currently building a new course and the target demographic is families, teens, and rec players. From the Blue tees, anyone rated above ~750 would likely be bored by mid-round, but the kids will certainly struggle and probably not have any fun at all (obviously not good for retaining new players). By installing a 'youth' tee box (even a rubber mat) on each hole at a distance of 75'-150', the kids will feel an early sense of accomplishment and be more likely to get 'hooked on disc golf'.
I liken this concept to my introduction to ball golf when I was 6-7 years old. My parents started me on a 9 hole pitch and putt where the longest hole was maybe 90-100 yards and most were ~75 yds. Pars were a possibility, and snowmen were rare, even for a weak beginner. This made me feel like I could actually play this game. By the time I played my first real course years later, I had enough skill and confidence to shoot decently and, more importantly, have fun. Had I started my ball golf experience at Pebble Beach, I probably would not have ever come back for a second round.
New tee boxes don't cost much and might be a good way to attract more players. The big boys can still play from the Blacks/Blues for the additional challenge. Win/Win. :thmbup:
To Zoe's point about introducing kids in elementary school to DG, perhaps a good start would be to design new courses with kids and novices in mind and maybe retrofit some existing courses as well.
For example, we're currently building a new course and the target demographic is families, teens, and rec players. From the Blue tees, anyone rated above ~750 would likely be bored by mid-round, but the kids will certainly struggle and probably not have any fun at all (obviously not good for retaining new players). By installing a 'youth' tee box (even a rubber mat) on each hole at a distance of 75'-150', the kids will feel an early sense of accomplishment and be more likely to get 'hooked on disc golf'.
I liken this concept to my introduction to ball golf when I was 6-7 years old. My parents started me on a 9 hole pitch and putt where the longest hole was maybe 90-100 yards and most were ~75 yds. Pars were a possibility, and snowmen were rare, even for a weak beginner. This made me feel like I could actually play this game. By the time I played my first real course years later, I had enough skill and confidence to shoot decently and, more importantly, have fun. Had I started my ball golf experience at Pebble Beach, I probably would not have ever come back for a second round.
New tee boxes don't cost much and might be a good way to attract more players. The big boys can still play from the Blacks/Blues for the additional challenge. Win/Win. :thmbup:
We have quite a few courses here located directly on school grounds and i am working on another at my local middle school which is approved we will hire a designer etc who has done this before at a school.
I would have loved to of known about DG as a kid but literally drove by a basket everyday i went to school and wondered wtf that goofy metal thing was sitting in the woods.
There are many peeps who have no idea DG is a thing who would love it. My cousins out in CA were a perfect example a couple of years back when i visted and have a course within easy walking distance...
I would have loved to of known about DG as a kid but literally drove by a basket everyday i went to school and wondered wtf that goofy metal thing was sitting in the woods.
There are many peeps who have no idea DG is a thing who would love it. My cousins out in CA were a perfect example a couple of years back when i visted and have a course within easy walking distance...
PBokor
Eagle Member
Yea :thmbup:
I played Oak Grove (Haha Park) and Sylmar (Vets Park) in California in the early eighties with one disc. Moved, lost interest, and never threw a golf disc again for 30 years. Came back in 2016 and discovered that I have a cousin who regularly plays Nats and World Am's and a bunch of family who live within bike distance of La Mirada and play regularly. Who knew...
PBokor
Eagle Member
Double Tap
Just watched the second half. Sarah was both convincing and sincere. Loved it.
For the record, I might be in the minority, but I enjoy watching FPO as much, or more, than MPO.
Just watched the second half. Sarah was both convincing and sincere. Loved it.
For the record, I might be in the minority, but I enjoy watching FPO as much, or more, than MPO.
hellbound
Eagle Member
Thought all the woman brought a valid point. Sarah points on money added where well thought out but I couldn't quite figure out how she proposed to do it and do it fair? I got the whole cost of living vs payout and yes it needs to be more equal/sustainable. Like the idea of opening up more spots for woman to xxx date then filling it with others if not needed. As for the added cash does the pdga need to have it stated that min cash added to the purse then that all left over divided by the number of pro players and add that to each div by number of players? Seems kind of tuff to justify 5000.00 added cash to both for a field of say 158 to a fpo field of 35? (2016 pro worlds)
Just using math here
40 dollar entry for both and 5000.00 added purse to each.
mens- entry pay ins + 5000.00/158= 71.00 per player - winner gets $1050. for the winner. (40% payout)
womans entry pay ins + 5000.00/35=1542.00 per player. $1655.00 for the winner. (40% payout)
91.00 split across the board. (includes added cash of 10,000 and entryfee)
mens 1st payout 1255.00
womans 1st payout 715.00
Love to here what other people think is fair? splitting all added cash straight up the board by number of players seems right. bigger the field the more money per person added. Growing the womans disc golf on the lower levels might be the biggest push needed before payouts become better.
by all means I love watching FPO rounds and follow the top woman closely. Just wanted to see what others think should be the model
Just using math here
40 dollar entry for both and 5000.00 added purse to each.
mens- entry pay ins + 5000.00/158= 71.00 per player - winner gets $1050. for the winner. (40% payout)
womans entry pay ins + 5000.00/35=1542.00 per player. $1655.00 for the winner. (40% payout)
91.00 split across the board. (includes added cash of 10,000 and entryfee)
mens 1st payout 1255.00
womans 1st payout 715.00
Love to here what other people think is fair? splitting all added cash straight up the board by number of players seems right. bigger the field the more money per person added. Growing the womans disc golf on the lower levels might be the biggest push needed before payouts become better.
by all means I love watching FPO rounds and follow the top woman closely. Just wanted to see what others think should be the model
hellbound
Eagle Member
Same here
I think the rule for added cash is:
Required added cash to be distributed proportionately. 3 times as many MPO as FPO, MPO gets 75% of the added cash.
Added cash above the minimum required, distributed as TD (or donors) desire.
Not positive about that, though, as we never have any at Stoney Hill.
Required added cash to be distributed proportionately. 3 times as many MPO as FPO, MPO gets 75% of the added cash.
Added cash above the minimum required, distributed as TD (or donors) desire.
Not positive about that, though, as we never have any at Stoney Hill.
Dana
Double Eagle Member
Pretty much.
Then that sort of leaves it up to the TD to fail to make everyone happy.
I've seen disproportionate shares go to FPO---disproportionate, in terms of actual numbers---because TDs wanted to help support women.
Which is fine. We should bear in the mind that there's no magic, "right" answer.
I've seen disproportionate shares go to FPO---disproportionate, in terms of actual numbers---because TDs wanted to help support women.
Which is fine. We should bear in the mind that there's no magic, "right" answer.
I personally think this is a big thing for growing the sport.
If there is one thing that ball golf does much better than disc golf, it's providing a tee that provides an appropriate challenge level whether you're a 70 year old man or a 20 something touring pro. A course that hosts the US Open can provide an enjoyable day of golf for an older recreational golfer, (in fact they have to, because old rich men make up the majority of their membership).
I don't know why but (at least anecdotally based on the courses I've played) disc golf courses don't seem to accomplish this. I often play with my 60+ year old mother, albeit an extremely athletic and fit 60 year old woman, and the red tees on newer courses generally are way too long. About the only courses that we are able to play together, without her getting frustrated and me getting bored, are the older "pitch and putts" with a 150-200ish short tee and 250-350ish long tee. I don't know if it's an overload of testoterone involved in new course design seeking the biggest and baddest possible or what, but there's a definite lack of catering to your average recreational player who probably makes up 90%+ of the users.
For the most part all it takes is a few extra teepads and a realization that your average player probably throws 250 feet max, to make the sport a lot more inclusive and enjoyable for a wider audience.
hellbound
Eagle Member
I agree with you on this one. I don't think there is going to be a win-win until the number ratio gets closer to 60-30 ratio or the large companies start stepping in.
Are you suggesting that the added cash rule is unfair as it stands? Seems to be actually quite fair from a participant standpoint. If you hypothetically had a tournament with 75% women and 25% men, the women would get more added cash.
Why should there be a switch to 60/30?
That's not equality.
And why should a large company step in to subsidize? Do you think more women will join tournaments if they can make a few more hundred or thousand dollars? Or will it only benefit the small group that is already playing?
This top down model stuff is not going to be very sustainable.
bnbanbury
Eagle Member
The issue that has been brought up recently, at least in terms of the Aussie open, is that once the minimum added cash was distributed the addition added cash was given to MPO. At the Aussie Open there was $6500.00 added cash and women were 18% of the field, so if all of the added cash were distributed by participation the women would have gotten $1170. Instead once the minimum added cash requirement was met ($500) the rest went to MPO.* In a situation like this, combined with the fact that none of the women's rounds were covered by the media, I can understand how the women would have some gripes.
*This is per Madison Walker who was in the field.
*This is per Madison Walker who was in the field.
VictorB
* Ace Member *
That might be ok at some levels? I think courses that have multiple tee pads are great, and if done properly can be fun and challenging from all lengths on the same hole.
The top women in the game have adamantly stated that they DO NOT want to play from shorter tees than the men. A lot of casual female golfers I've played with (including my wife, and she's pretty good) don't like playing from different tees either. I think that having them included in the design is great, as it adds more variety to the course - but don't expect that people who can't throw as far to necessarily be interested in playing handicapped tee positions.
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UP Mountain Man
Par Member
I'm sorry for the confusion, Lyle.
I was sarcastically trolling the earlier responses to Paul's insightful post. And complimenting your reasonable response, which I agree with.
I cringe when I see posters having fun trolling celebrity posters gracious enough to contribute here.
bnbanbury
Eagle Member
I don't see anyone trolling, I certainly wasn't. I completely disagree that the top two women were not involved when Val is the reigning world champ and there seems to be something implied in the post that the concerns of the symposium were a little less valid without Paige and Catrina's involvement.
As far as cringing goes, "celebrity posters gracious enough"... well that made me cringe. :gross:
Re: ? Can you test any MVP:
It goes both ways here sorry.
PMcBeth said:
It goes both ways here sorry.
