Working on distance as a beginner

[Waddball]

On the other hand, the disc golf backhand is a weird beast. Physical effort exerted doesn't really correlate to distance until you have an efficient swing to build that into.

Agreed. And actually that's what I had in mind when I wrote that. When I first started, I hit consistent 250' distance (RHBH) really quickly, and occasionally could push close to 300' with my wonky form. I'm very sure that I could have "perfected" that wonky form, maxed out at 300', and had very good accuracy (playing my slice, so to speak).

But I started watching videos and reading this site, and realized my wonkiness had a hard ceiling. I also didn't really care about results score-wise (I'm playing for exercise and fun, not competition). So I focused on process, not outcome. I figure get the process right, the results will follow. And so far, they have, but I'm sure I have a somewhat idiosyncratic view of "results".

Anyway, I'm just noting my own take on this, not the "correct" take. Of course you need both if you want to score well, and I think Bill Fleming made compelling arguments as to why accuracy trumps power in a lot of cases on a scorecard.

 

[Sheep]

Agreed. And actually that's what I had in mind when I wrote that. When I first started, I hit consistent 250' distance (RHBH) really quickly, and occasionally could push close to 300' with my wonky form. I'm very sure that I could have "perfected" that wonky form, maxed out at 300', and had very good accuracy (playing my slice, so to speak).

But I started watching videos and reading this site, and realized my wonkiness had a hard ceiling. I also didn't really care about results score-wise (I'm playing for exercise and fun, not competition). So I focused on process, not outcome. I figure get the process right, the results will follow. And so far, they have, but I'm sure I have a somewhat idiosyncratic view of "results".

Anyway, I'm just noting my own take on this, not the "correct" take. Of course you need both if you want to score well, and I think Bill Fleming made compelling arguments as to why accuracy trumps power in a lot of cases on a scorecard.

I will say there are people out there who have atrocious form, throw the disc all the wrong ways but play really successful golf.

How they manage it, I have no idea. but they can throw that shot consistent, and thats where their win comes in. Not from distance, but because they can do repetitions.
Unless the wind is bad, then watch their force annie flex's go bad. I digress.

These people do, unfortunately, drive me nuts. Cause 90% of them have no clue they have atrocious form, and they will gladly step all over you with bad info when you're trying to help somebody who wants to improve their form.

And people, unfortunately, listen to that person because they have a good score on the course over my score which isn't as good, because nobody has a clue what I'm doing. (Including myself) (thats a joke, I'm generally trying things or practicing specific mechanics, not focusing on score)

anyways. Yeah, Setting goals is what it comes back to again.
And being consistent is what it also comes back to again.

 

[Waddball]

I will say there are people out there who have atrocious form, throw the disc all the wrong ways but play really successful golf.

How they manage it, I have no idea. but they can throw that shot consistent, and thats where their win comes in. Not from distance, but because they can do repetitions.

Right. And that's what I fear about accuracy > distance sorts of thinking. Locking in bad patterns because of good results.

(And I should have been using "distance" not "power" earlier, but I was in the mindset of my volleyball example.)

Anyway, one of the interesting things I've observed with my form journey is that by improving my distance (by improving my form, esp. in terms of shifting from behind and getting weight on front leg, which allows me to input more power into the system) I also unintentionally improved my accuracy.

I don't know how much of that is just repetition and how much is a necessary linkage between form and accuracy. But I suspect there's a strong correlation between good form and both distance and accuracy. And not so strong a correlation between accuracy and good form.

 

[RowingBoats]

I will say there are people out there who have atrocious form, throw the disc all the wrong ways but play really successful golf.

How they manage it, I have no idea. but they can throw that shot consistent, and thats where their win comes in. Not from distance, but because they can do repetitions.
Unless the wind is bad, then watch their force annie flex's go bad. I digress.

These people do, unfortunately, drive me nuts. Cause 90% of them have no clue they have atrocious form, and they will gladly step all over you with bad info when you're trying to help somebody who wants to improve their form.

And people, unfortunately, listen to that person because they have a good score on the course over my score which isn't as good, because nobody has a clue what I'm doing. (Including myself) (thats a joke, I'm generally trying things or practicing specific mechanics, not focusing on score)

anyways. Yeah, Setting goals is what it comes back to again.
And being consistent is what it also comes back to again.

These things actually happen on your cards lol?

Man, Colorado is the place to play then. Everyone is pretty much high and just vibin'.

 

[RowingBoats]

Right. And that's what I fear about accuracy > distance sorts of thinking. Locking in bad patterns because of good results.

(And I should have been using "distance" not "power" earlier, but I was in the mindset of my volleyball example.)

Anyway, one of the interesting things I've observed with my form journey is that by improving my distance (by improving my form, esp. in terms of shifting from behind and getting weight on front leg, which allows me to input more power into the system) I also unintentionally improved my accuracy.

I don't know how much of that is just repetition and how much is a necessary linkage between form and accuracy. But I suspect there's a strong correlation between good form and both distance and accuracy. And not so strong a correlation between accuracy and good form.

I think this is a real thing. Good, clean deliberate form keeps you closer to consciously understanding what you are doing during the swing. Bad, wild form is what I mentioned above as a 'black-out' feeling to me. Like I just started a motion that I don't fully understand, and just let it ride.

 

[Sheep]

Right. And that's what I fear about accuracy > distance sorts of thinking. Locking in bad patterns because of good results.

(And I should have been using "distance" not "power" earlier, but I was in the mindset of my volleyball example.)

Anyway, one of the interesting things I've observed with my form journey is that by improving my distance (by improving my form, esp. in terms of shifting from behind and getting weight on front leg, which allows me to input more power into the system) I also unintentionally improved my accuracy.

I don't know how much of that is just repetition and how much is a necessary linkage between form and accuracy. But I suspect there's a strong correlation between good form and both distance and accuracy. And not so strong a correlation between accuracy and good form.

Focusing on a better brace probably forced better footwork. You aim with your feet. =) And more deliberate foot placement will help with your aim.

These things actually happen on your cards lol?

Man, Colorado is the place to play then. Everyone is pretty much high and just vibin'.

Nashville has one of the largest disc golf clubs in the nation. thats' just "members" not including the insane amount of non member players.

I had one here recently where a guys dad came with him and wanted to be better. So I gave him a really quick lesson and he started throwing really good. His son, who I play with quite often and has a super muscled style throw interjects for him to drive with the elbow, and his dad immediately started throwing back up in the air again and half the distance.

The other guys just shook their head, cause there was no reason to argue with it and I had worked with them a ton on their form already and got them all playing better. They recognized exactly what had just happened.

I've had it happen in other situations too, but usually the one I see is the "lean back and throw it on an anhyzer." And there are some players out there who play like that, and they navigate the course well, but they have been doing it 10 years or so, they are never going to get any better with the way they throw, but they are willing to step overtop of you when somebody asks you for help. "Your form is really smooth, what are you doing different than me?"

So you give them a quick lesson and they work on it for a few holes, then that other dude just jumps in and ruins all of it. And they listen cause sometimes that person is shooting good, or he's out throwing me distance wise.
I really should just carry a disc in my bag that allows me to push that throw type and pull the "here, let me show you how to get poor form cheater distance." then out drive them. But .. While I'm a jerk, I'm not that kind of jerk. haha

I have not honestly seen it in a while, but I don't play the most popular course 5+ times a week like I used to when I lived 15 mins away. thats 45 min drive now.

I think this is a real thing. Good, clean deliberate form keeps you closer to consciously understanding what you are doing during the swing. Bad, wild form is what I mentioned above as a 'black-out' feeling to me. Like I just started a motion that I don't fully understand, and just let it ride.

The "grip and rip" form.

Where the throw is so violent and wild that you have no idea how bad youre doing, but you think you're doing what the good players are doing. Cause you're yeeting, so it must be right.

 

[sidewinder22]

I had one here recently where a guys dad came with him and wanted to be better. So I gave him a really quick lesson and he started throwing really good. His son, who I play with quite often and has a super muscled style throw interjects for him to drive with the elbow, and his dad immediately started throwing back up in the air again and half the distance.

The other guys just shook their head, cause there was no reason to argue with it and I had worked with them a ton on their form already and got them all playing better. They recognized exactly what had just happened.

I've had it happen in other situations too, but usually the one I see is the "lean back and throw it on an anhyzer." And there are some players out there who play like that, and they navigate the course well, but they have been doing it 10 years or so, they are never going to get any better with the way they throw, but they are willing to step overtop of you when somebody asks you for help. "Your form is really smooth, what are you doing different than me?"

So you give them a quick lesson and they work on it for a few holes, then that other dude just jumps in and ruins all of it. And they listen cause sometimes that person is shooting good, or he's out throwing me distance wise.
I really should just carry a disc in my bag that allows me to push that throw type and pull the "here, let me show you how to get poor form cheater distance." then out drive them. But .. While I'm a jerk, I'm not that kind of jerk. haha

I have not honestly seen it in a while, but I don't play the most popular course 5+ times a week like I used to when I lived 15 mins away. thats 45 min drive now.



The "grip and rip" form.

Where the throw is so violent and wild that you have no idea how bad youre doing, but you think you're doing what the good players are doing. Cause you're yeeting, so it must be right.

Sounds all too familiar ^.

I gave a lesson to a couple about a year ago, the guy starts trying to teach her, ugh, it was rough trying to navigate that.

 

[jupiterboy]

People ruin everything.

 

[Sheep]

Sounds all too familiar ^.

I gave a lesson to a couple about a year ago, the guy starts trying to teach her, ugh, it was rough trying to navigate that.

I know were doing lessons right now, and you're now throwing better with his instruction, but while the coach is still here, you need to do these things too.

XD

 

[Surly Bastage]

-What does it tell us when midranges and drivers fly the same distance?

That you are throwing nose up, which decreases distance. Putters and mids are not as sensitive to this as drivers.

To get a feel for the angle a disc prefers to fly on, hold it out of a vehicle as you drive SLOWLY. Do this with putters, mids, and drivers.

Also, if you plan to work on your form, get in the habit of recording your throws from behind and the side. Feel ain't real.

I finally started recording regularly a few years ago and my form has progressed so much quicker. I just wish I had started doing so long ago. Stupid younger me!

 

[ChrisinFL]

Technique is king.


I'd never personally tell someone to "only throw putters." But I will tell somebody to not throw big distance drivers. A guy I play with threw cranks so much, he's afraid to throw anything else. Then throws 7-9 speeds further than his cranks and I look at him and scream. (he's a friend, screaming totally appropriate.)

In disc golf, disc speeds, as I'm sure you're finding out, don't necessarily mean "more distance."
But it does mean "more distance potential" and potential is our key word there.

It's important to understand that our ability needs to match up with our discs we throw. We change discs to help us achieve better control over time vs trying to force discs around to our will. When you're spending to much time trying to make discs work, you're hurting your form growth. This is why big distance drivers are bad. Most people have to force them to get any distance, and this isn't really a good way to get better. It's just a good way to casually play disc golf and get through the course.
So that's an important decision to make as a player, do you want to be good, or just be a filthy casual who has a good time.
And Ive played with tons of casual players who have horrible form, push the discs around that are far beyond their skill level and make them work. But it's sad to see a 13 speed disc being thrown poorly only 300 feet. But that's how they make distance, while Im' throwing a midrange or a 5/6 speed disc there, and they don't understand the correlations.

That 13 speed disc goes 30 foot further for them, so thats what they throw.
But all their discs go only 200-250 feet. cept that one driver they throw poorly. Don't fall into that trap.


Midranges and putters are more forgiving on nose angles. So, the midrange/driver thing is generally because you throw slightly nose up and the driver doesn't perform, but a midrange doesn't mind a bit of nose angle.

distances with discs?
I think if you feel comfortable with putters at 100-150, and midranges at 150-200. You're getting somewhere. That's beginner level stuff.
But with a lot of things changing out there equipment wise and understanding wise, it's hard to put numbers on some of this stuff unless you see somebody throw.

The key is, in my opinion, to focus on getting a good basic swing that allows you to not feel like you're over exerting yourself to move down the course and enjoy the game that you can control your game and getting there, and building on that. And putters and midranges are a great way to learn that style of game and moving up as you feel more and more comfortable with your form

That you are throwing nose up, which decreases distance. Putters and mids are not as sensitive to this as drivers.

To get a feel for the angle a disc prefers to fly on, hold it out of a vehicle as you drive SLOWLY. Do this with putters, mids, and drivers.

Also, if you plan to work on your form, get in the habit of recording your throws from behind and the side. Feel ain't real.

I finally started recording regularly a few years ago and my form has progressed so much quicker. I just wish I had started doing so long ago. Stupid younger me!

Agreed. I was getting frustrated with lack of progress, started getting regular video of my throws, and gradually at first, then faster now, progress has come! Shocking at first how much different (aka worse) my throws were from what I thought they were! My secret sauce is slow motion video, then I drag through frame by frame, to really see what I am doing when, and I already know what I am looking for from countless hours of watching and studying UTube videos and chatting on this site. Then I try to fix, starting with my worst issues first, take more video, fix, and I am sure there is still plenty of room for progress this way. Eventually I may reach a wall, where I can not find what I need to fix to keep improving, then I will have to get bold and turn my video over to the form/technique section of this site and get help from the pros. Right now, my form is still too embarrassing for that kind of public scrutiny.

 

[ChrisinFL]

That you are throwing nose up, which decreases distance. Putters and mids are not as sensitive to this as drivers.

To get a feel for the angle a disc prefers to fly on, hold it out of a vehicle as you drive SLOWLY. Do this with putters, mids, and drivers.

Also, if you plan to work on your form, get in the habit of recording your throws from behind and the side. Feel ain't real.

I finally started recording regularly a few years ago and my form has progressed so much quicker. I just wish I had started doing so long ago. Stupid younger me!

So help me make sure I got this right. I max at 265-275', with 148-150g Pro Terns and Fission Waves. My buddy maxes about the same, maybe a smidge longer, but he does it with 7 speeds. He throws putters and mids a lot, and a long ways. I can't even throw putters and mids decent at all with a power grip. I have made significant strides recently, on form, distance, and consistency, and my light weight, high speed drivers are now as consistent and accurate as his mids and fairway drivers. He throws almost no distance drivers because he says he is less accurate with them, and gets no more distance with them. Am I right in guessing that this means his overall form is better than mine, but he is throwing nose up and I am not? Or is there some other reason light weight distance drivers work for me, putters and mids do not, and he is the exact reverse of that???! Thank you all for any help!

 

[Kennets]

To be fair, there's plenty of "how and why"s to your question and I'm not gonna cover them all (mostly because of lack of knowledge on the subject).

If you're only playing for scores/fun, and not to develop form, you could keep on throwing distance drivers. If you were to really polish your form and get better in the long run, quit the distance drivers. Unless the shotshape requires it.

For me, throwing mids and putters REALLY gave/give me an understanding of my own form. A bad release angle or wobble on release will get masked by a driver and really show when throwing a putter. It's hard to throw a putter with a decent amount of power and still get a clean release, but nothing beats throwing a putter hard into the air and watch it glide for ages.

And yes, a nose up throw with a putter is more forgiving than throwing nose up with a driver.

There's probably a million people in here with more in-depth view on the subject, but.

I would ditch the drivers and play with a fairway driver as the absolutely highest speed for now, you won't regret it. It might be hard to get through the first 50 rounds, but once you start to get the release angle right, getting clean releases and learn how to shape a shot instead of relying on the driver doing it, your game will be immensely better.. by far.

 

[zontar]

^^^^this. ditch the distance driver and stick with fairways. you'll get smoother, faster.

 

[Sheep]

So help me make sure I got this right. I max at 265-275', with 148-150g Pro Terns and Fission Waves. My buddy maxes about the same, maybe a smidge longer, but he does it with 7 speeds. He throws putters and mids a lot, and a long ways. I can't even throw putters and mids decent at all with a power grip. I have made significant strides recently, on form, distance, and consistency, and my light weight, high speed drivers are now as consistent and accurate as his mids and fairway drivers. He throws almost no distance drivers because he says he is less accurate with them, and gets no more distance with them. Am I right in guessing that this means his overall form is better than mine, but he is throwing nose up and I am not? Or is there some other reason light weight distance drivers work for me, putters and mids do not, and he is the exact reverse of that???! Thank you all for any help!

With all my knowledge in disc golf and what I was throwing and could throw...

My bag is full of 6 speeds. I have a few faster discs but... lets see.
2 tesla's, orbital, motion and defy. That's 5 discs in my bag that are "driver" level.

While i'm sitting on 3 craves, 2 relays, 2 signals 1 Rhythm (overstable tho) as my main throwers.

Why?

I duno, they go 400 feet when I throw them right and nose down.
They fly 300 with not much effort.

Whats the point of throwing these big drivers if all you do is throw them 320 feet, and they require a lot harder throwing technique, and you gain nothing but grief and bad shots?

Most people in all honesty are just afraid to throw slower discs. They think they need the faster disc to go further. and its so far from the truth that its hilarious.
"But my 13 speed parks it, when i throw slower stuff I'm 20 foot short."

so, you're worried about 20 foot, which.. honestly, you'd get with a bit of throwing from that slower disc in 1 or 2 rounds without actually changing anything, but learning to just back off and throw smooth.

High speed discs are a crutch to a lot of players.
And I mean it as a literal crutch.

High speed discs also hide a lot of form issues.


But here is the deal of all of it.
If you're not worried about any of that stuff. throw what you want and makes you happy.
Just because I'm throwing a putter on an 280 foot hole and you're throwing a crank, If that's what you wanna do, cool. But as well this. I don't want to hear about you sucking or how you suck, or any other thing about your game.
You're choosing to not get better when you play that way and deciding that your game type is that.

So, cheers out there to those big high speed force annie flex guys.

 

[Sewer bill]

Those anny flex guys are usually SOO close too it hurts to watch. That said I'm also that guy and I love that shot.

 

[Kennets]

To be fair @Sheep - craves go FAR! If I hadn't lost mine a while back, I'm pretty sure it would've been my go-to "driver". Such an awesome disc

 

[ChrisinFL]

Those anny flex guys are usually SOO close too it hurts to watch. That said I'm also that guy and I love that shot.

Lol.

 

[ChrisinFL]

With all my knowledge in disc golf and what I was throwing and could throw...

My bag is full of 6 speeds. I have a few faster discs but... lets see.
2 tesla's, orbital, motion and defy. That's 5 discs in my bag that are "driver" level.

While i'm sitting on 3 craves, 2 relays, 2 signals 1 Rhythm (overstable tho) as my main throwers.

Why?

I duno, they go 400 feet when I throw them right and nose down.
They fly 300 with not much effort.

Whats the point of throwing these big drivers if all you do is throw them 320 feet, and they require a lot harder throwing technique, and you gain nothing but grief and bad shots?

Most people in all honesty are just afraid to throw slower discs. They think they need the faster disc to go further. and its so far from the truth that its hilarious.
"But my 13 speed parks it, when i throw slower stuff I'm 20 foot short."

so, you're worried about 20 foot, which.. honestly, you'd get with a bit of throwing from that slower disc in 1 or 2 rounds without actually changing anything, but learning to just back off and throw smooth.

High speed discs are a crutch to a lot of players.
And I mean it as a literal crutch.

High speed discs also hide a lot of form issues.


But here is the deal of all of it.
If you're not worried about any of that stuff. throw what you want and makes you happy.
Just because I'm throwing a putter on an 280 foot hole and you're throwing a crank, If that's what you wanna do, cool. But as well this. I don't want to hear about you sucking or how you suck, or any other thing about your game.
You're choosing to not get better when you play that way and deciding that your game type is that.

So, cheers out there to those big high speed force annie flex guys.

Well, I don't throw an anny flex, and I work continually on improving my form. I study technique almost daily, get video of my throws regularly to watch and try to improve, and do more days between the practice field and back yard putting than days playing rounds. I try to throw mostly flat, and try to hyzer flip flippy discs like Mamba or Diamond. I play recreational, for fun, and I have way more fun throwing my light weight distance drivers 250-265', rather than throwing mids and putters with a power grip and throwing them horribly. If I had to play with just mids and putters, and struggle with every throw, I would probably quit playing. As I improve, I try to power grip and throw mids and putters, and when I am able to do so with any kind of reasonable result, I will use them more. For now, my approach game is fan gripping putters that I can get up to about 150'.

 

[Sheep]

Well, I don't throw an anny flex, and I work continually on improving my form. I study technique almost daily, get video of my throws regularly to watch and try to improve, and do more days between the practice field and back yard putting than days playing rounds. I try to throw mostly flat, and try to hyzer flip flippy discs like Mamba or Diamond. I play recreational, for fun, and I have way more fun throwing my light weight distance drivers 250-265', rather than throwing mids and putters with a power grip and throwing them horribly. If I had to play with just mids and putters, and struggle with every throw, I would probably quit playing. As I improve, I try to power grip and throw mids and putters, and when I am able to do so with any kind of reasonable result, I will use them more. For now, my approach game is fan gripping putters that I can get up to about 150'.

That wasn't an attack on you if you took it that way.
It's just pretty normal stuff I see. its Funny to me.

I don't think anyone is coming in this forum where they are not trying to improve and just stay on that rec level of crappy throwing not looking to improve sorta deal.