AlexD243
Par Member
variety, some woods, some open, some straight, some to the left, some to the right, and a few doglegs.
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What makes a great disc golf course ?
- Thread starter Jmorri67
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Allurex
* Ace Member *
In addition to everything Bogey said, a really great competitive course creates scoring spread. This is partially achieved through variety, so that players who specialize in any certain thing can't take over. Long arms have a chance to shine, technical throwers can avoid mistakes, but players will also need to show many other skills to play well.
On a more micro scale, individual holes need to be both gettable and dangerous. A good hole is one where a player can play it really well a get a birdie (2 or 3, depending on the par), and gain themselves a stroke on the field. Similarly, the same hole needs to be dangerous and such that if you make a mistake, you're likely to walk away with a bogey, double, or worse. That's sometimes how you can tell a really great hole, when someone throws a great shot, makes a putt, gets a two. Meanwhile, someone on the same card throws a bad drive, gets punished, struggles to recover, and takes a 5.
It can be tough, however, to keep luck as small a factor as possible. Luck will always have some say in a sport like this, hopefully a bit of bad luck doesn't cost someone 3 strokes on one hole. This is especially troublesome on really wooded courses where players may sometimes have to 'poke and hope'. Obviously it's up to the player to throw a good shot, but there's not much a player can do to try to miss every single tree once his disc is a couple hundred feet down the fairway.
An example of a really good hole is #1 at Waterworks in KC-
508 feet but significantly downhill. There's a line that a player can hit and potentially have a look at 2 or an easy 3. It's still a very tough 2, as the line is long, tight, and hard to hit; and the green slopes way downhill left away from the basket, making a soft landing difficult. Further, if you miss the line on your drive, saving a 3 can be very difficult if not impossible to hit, depending on where your drive ends up. It's entirely possible to have a bad drive, have to pitch out, have your upshot skip down the hill, lay up and put in for a 5, if not worse.
On a more micro scale, individual holes need to be both gettable and dangerous. A good hole is one where a player can play it really well a get a birdie (2 or 3, depending on the par), and gain themselves a stroke on the field. Similarly, the same hole needs to be dangerous and such that if you make a mistake, you're likely to walk away with a bogey, double, or worse. That's sometimes how you can tell a really great hole, when someone throws a great shot, makes a putt, gets a two. Meanwhile, someone on the same card throws a bad drive, gets punished, struggles to recover, and takes a 5.
It can be tough, however, to keep luck as small a factor as possible. Luck will always have some say in a sport like this, hopefully a bit of bad luck doesn't cost someone 3 strokes on one hole. This is especially troublesome on really wooded courses where players may sometimes have to 'poke and hope'. Obviously it's up to the player to throw a good shot, but there's not much a player can do to try to miss every single tree once his disc is a couple hundred feet down the fairway.
An example of a really good hole is #1 at Waterworks in KC-
508 feet but significantly downhill. There's a line that a player can hit and potentially have a look at 2 or an easy 3. It's still a very tough 2, as the line is long, tight, and hard to hit; and the green slopes way downhill left away from the basket, making a soft landing difficult. Further, if you miss the line on your drive, saving a 3 can be very difficult if not impossible to hit, depending on where your drive ends up. It's entirely possible to have a bad drive, have to pitch out, have your upshot skip down the hill, lay up and put in for a 5, if not worse.
HeavyCritters
**Stickin'Putts**
You forgot
+ for unicorn to transport me from throw to throw
+ for supermodels feeding me sandwiches and giving me beer along the way
+ for acing every hole
+ for nication
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^^ I so want to play that course - gotta plan a road trip to KC.
Rockiesfan4ever
Birdie Member
^^ I so want to play that course - gotta plan a road trip to KC.
Its an (insert string of amazing adjectives here) course.
knettles
Double Eagle Member
Some people mentioned tees, but since I'm a teepad nazi, I wanted to elaborate. Concrete, or gravel as long as it's done well. I'm talking small pea gravel that's applied when it's wet out so it sinks slightly into the dirt for good traction that will last. Either material, they MUST be at least 5' by 10'. Six by twelve isn't necessary, but still pretty awesome when you see them. Equally important is that they're flat and level. I've seen flat teepads where people would slip their plant foot quite often because it was tilted too much forward.
Having that been said, I have simplified/shortened my runup and am working on improving my standstill throw. And of course the quality of the teepad matters more for people who use a runup, but why not give people the choice?
Having that been said, I have simplified/shortened my runup and am working on improving my standstill throw. And of course the quality of the teepad matters more for people who use a runup, but why not give people the choice?
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Good list Bogey! to me a great course or even a good course is one that has what I call clean airways. There are not random limbs or clutter and there are not a bunch of plinko trees that lean into or dominate the fairway. If clean lines and attainable are there to be hit and Im not overly punished by random trees at the end of the fairway then I am usually happy with the course
Hard to add to what Bogey has already stated, but one addition to Variety.....holes that are not all "righty friendly". I play with a few friends that are lefty's, and a really good player can adapt to placing their shots right/left depending on the placement of the basket...however, a great course has a good mix of righty/lefty holes. I'm not saying 50/50; but also not 15-16 right hand hyzer shot holes either, with a few lefty shots added. I've even played some holes that it does not favor either. Also, not having a LOT of holes being dead straight ahead is also good. Recently played a hole (#11 at Va-Du-Mar, Boiling Springs, SC) where it was a 450+ ft hole. You are on top of a hill throwing down, fairway is fairly wide, but is heavily wooded both sides, so an errant throw will cost you. At the bottom of the hill is a creek, so too long and you can be OB. The hole doglegs left, so it does favor a righty more off the tee. However, once down the dogleg, the basket is on the right side, and with a creek running down the entire length of the dogleg. So, it does favor a lefty once you throw the drive. Having holes similar to this (also to add this particular hole was not only tricky, but very pretty as well, and much cooler in the heat of the day once you got into the dog-leg portion) is what makes a course great.
simpletwist
* Ace Member *
I think Bogey No More captured just about everything with a few exceptions.
Multiple tees are very important. A great course should be great for all. And multiple tees allows the opportunity for people of different skill levels to compete with one another.
Amenities would for me and others be very important.
I'm not a kid any more and a lot of my friends out there are in far worst shape than I and some benches preferably on every hole.
And just behind that tree doesn't always make it with the ladies.
How about a water jug at least at the midway point.
And distance markers are a very nice touch. At Hawk's Landing in Eden, NY there are markers of different colors denoting the distance to the basket; 50', 100', 150'.
A well stocked Pro Shop. Snacks & drinks, maybe even a burger or a dog.
Lastly the one thing BogeyNoMore said that is more important than many consider and bears repeating, Beauty. A great course has to have several holes if not all, where you step to teebox and get wowed. Not just that walk in the park that would be nice even without playing. And with proper landscaping even the tightest wooded holes can have some beauty.
All of these things are attainable most easily with more pay to play private courses.
Multiple tees are very important. A great course should be great for all. And multiple tees allows the opportunity for people of different skill levels to compete with one another.
Amenities would for me and others be very important.
I'm not a kid any more and a lot of my friends out there are in far worst shape than I and some benches preferably on every hole.
And just behind that tree doesn't always make it with the ladies.
How about a water jug at least at the midway point.
And distance markers are a very nice touch. At Hawk's Landing in Eden, NY there are markers of different colors denoting the distance to the basket; 50', 100', 150'.
A well stocked Pro Shop. Snacks & drinks, maybe even a burger or a dog.
Lastly the one thing BogeyNoMore said that is more important than many consider and bears repeating, Beauty. A great course has to have several holes if not all, where you step to teebox and get wowed. Not just that walk in the park that would be nice even without playing. And with proper landscaping even the tightest wooded holes can have some beauty.
All of these things are attainable most easily with more pay to play private courses.
There are several ways to look at this thread's title question.
I took it as, What courses are great, and what makes them so?
As opposed to, What features or amenities make a course better? Presumably, elevating a Very Good Course to Great, or keeping a course from achieving Greatness due to their absence.
I took it as, What courses are great, and what makes them so?
As opposed to, What features or amenities make a course better? Presumably, elevating a Very Good Course to Great, or keeping a course from achieving Greatness due to their absence.
Ahh, I see that you're 18. Wait until you reach 30 and older.
Or play epically long courses.
I will admit that when the question is "What makes a great disc golf course" and the answer is simply "bathrooms", my thoughts go to medical issues.
Because, obviously, crappy little 9-hole course doesn't become great with the addition of bathrooms, no matter how fine they are. Unless bathrooms are really important to you.
Which isn't to say they aren't a valuable amenity, or the lack of them isn't, sometimes, a drawback. Better if the answer had been, "....and bathrooms", I guess.
I will admit that when the question is "What makes a great disc golf course" and the answer is simply "bathrooms", my thoughts go to medical issues.
Because, obviously, crappy little 9-hole course doesn't become great with the addition of bathrooms, no matter how fine they are. Unless bathrooms are really important to you.
Which isn't to say they aren't a valuable amenity, or the lack of them isn't, sometimes, a drawback. Better if the answer had been, "....and bathrooms", I guess.
The amenity-dependent answers brought me an odd realization. Because I'm big on teepads and, not just teepads, but sufficient ones---at concrete, grippy, level, at least 12' long, no big drop off front.
But then I thought, of the courses I've played, 6 stand far above the others, at least to my taste. Only 1 of these has/had concrete tees, and as I recall, that's not on every hole. Only 1 has benches on most holes. Furthermore, I can think of a number of course on the next tier of my favorites list that lack these features, too.
I have no idea what this means; I'll have to ponder it a bit.
But then I thought, of the courses I've played, 6 stand far above the others, at least to my taste. Only 1 of these has/had concrete tees, and as I recall, that's not on every hole. Only 1 has benches on most holes. Furthermore, I can think of a number of course on the next tier of my favorites list that lack these features, too.
I have no idea what this means; I'll have to ponder it a bit.
You should see the course in this guy's back yard. I'm sure most would agree that it qualifies as great.
I dunno. But after BogeyNoMore's post, which so thoroughly covered the topic that everyone else was left talking about bathrooms, I think if he ever gets down this way it may well fit his criteria. If he didn't describe Stoney Hill, he at least described our aspirations for it. Assuming it's not this summer, when the tropical rains have turned it into a kind of hilly everglades---tall grass and water everywhere.
joshuajames
Double Eagle Member
This pretty much covers it!
I might add water fountains and restroom facilities....possibly a store or shop to buy discs near it (that has Lat, Westside, DD, and MVP in addition to the big 2)
Edit: Haha...bathrooms!
The same thing that makes everything better... Exclusivity.
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I will say this. In my opinion the best course that I have played to this point had dirt tees, no bathroom on site, no benches, decent but not great teesigns, and literally had chit in the fairways.
Amenities are great but a course can be great without them
Amenities are great but a course can be great without them
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^^^Sounds like a great course!
You know what they say about opinions.
Hawk Hollow is the course in question btw. Forgot to add that.
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