grodney
* Ace Member *
That's an interesting mando on #5. I almost always play the long way around the trees --- hoping to make a par 5 by getting up-and-down from a couple-hundred feet out.
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2015 United States Disc Golf Championship
- Thread starter Halcón
- Start date
That's how I see it. With 5 ob throws you are getting wrecked on that hole regardless, at least you don't get put in the situation where you have nothing left to throw and have to try and make something happen with a driver (or try and sprint down and collect some discs and throw again within 30 seconds)
grodney
* Ace Member *
???
What if my drive makes the triple mando but cut-rolls back against the "good" side of the bamboo fence? Where am I supposed to take my stance? (The "bad" side of the bamboo isn't OB.) I could certainly get on the LOP within 30cm on the bad side even though my disc is on the good side.
From Hole 7's description (pg 8 of the document): "If after passing the mandatory correctly the disc establishes a position such that the bamboo wall prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker, the player may relocate the lie up to one meter away from and perpendicular to the mandatory line even if the direction takes the lie closer to the target."
So it would appear that the bamboo is treated as an OB wall once you have safely navigated the mando and are on the "green".
grodney
* Ace Member *
Ha, missed that. Thanks!
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The mando on Hole #5 mystifies me as well.
It's bad enough for me as a lefty. I really can't imagine trying to anny over the water.
It's one of the best holes in disc golf and they keep messing with it.
I wonder if the pros will try to hyzer it in anyways and who will make the mando call when the disc is 50' over the trees.
It's bad enough for me as a lefty. I really can't imagine trying to anny over the water.
It's one of the best holes in disc golf and they keep messing with it.
I wonder if the pros will try to hyzer it in anyways and who will make the mando call when the disc is 50' over the trees.
filobedo
Double Eagle Member
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I have been every year since 2005 except for 2011. Here are suggestions,
Pay the $25 for the VIP pass regardless if you go for one day or all of them. As much as Innova has done for the sport since the beginning and continues to do, this is not unreasonable.
Walk the course backwards from #10 on Friday or Saturday at least once and you will see the top cards play some great early holes and when you get to #1 you can also see #17 teeshots and relax in the shade (this way you also get to see #16).
Do not be "that guy" - Stand still if you are behind a target when guys are putting, do not ask for autographs during play, have a sense of self awareness when talking or walking around the course (e.g., #1, #2 and #17 tee are close, #3 basket, parking, and #4 tee and fairway are close, #7 basket, #8 tee and #16 basket are very close and I have seen spectators distract players because they are not paying attention).
Monday qualifying is fun to attend and if you go early in the week the pro shop has more of a selection of items available.
Not sure how much this still happens, but if you play Boyd the morning of rounds you may see some pros out warming up.
Do not stand in front of media even if you are media. The last couple of years numerous photographers and videographers (some with credentials and some without) have been at the event which is encouraging for growth but not all are aware of others trying to watch.
Do not go into the lake or retrieve discs in the lake!
Do not stand behind the tee of hole #1 unless you are a player or caddie.
Do not play the course unless you are a competitor (I saw a few guys play several holes on Saturday right after the lead card got past #3).
If you park on #5 to take pictures of the Shack, turn off your vehicle and put it in park.
Have fun!
How is that an any for a lefty? Its a mando right, so it should play as a lefty hyzer or righty sidearm hyzer. Obviously sucks for any RHBH players with no sidearm game.
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Worded poorly. My apologies.
I am sympathizing with a RHBH that has to go over the water on an anny line.
Going over the water as a RHBH is an Advanced to Pro-level throw.
It's going to make for some unpleasant memories.
This is the thing that so many people disagree about.
Should we be able to dump short and play safe on really dangerous lines?
This mando will not play well in the Performance Flight...
Ah I gotcha. I feel like it is fair, and even a good thing, to punish skilled players who don't have a functional sidearm game. I don't know if that was the intent of the mando, but that is one of the results. I'm fine with that. I'm not necessarily a fan of removing the conservative play option. You can't call it risk/reward if you don't leave people a safer alternative.
the hazard area on #1 is interesting. I guess they are just trying to make it harder. It makes some sense. By putting 2 hazards close to the basket you encourage players to play the drive short and have to make a longer putt, or run the basket at their own risk. So I guess it makes the hole more complex.
I'm not sure it is removing the safe alternative, at least not completely. There remains the option of laying up to the edge of the water as close to the corner as possible to make the throw across as short as possible. It's not as though every player is being required to throw 250-300+ feet in order to be safe with no alternative. I'd guess a throw from the mando drop zone has to travel less than 200 feet to find safe ground on the basket side. And there appears to be room to land closer to the corner than the drop zone and make the distance required to clear the water less than 200 feet. Being willing to land in/under the trees on the corner would reduce the water carry even more (but carries its own set of risks).
The other thing that I think drives a lot of the changes and frankly the design in general over the years is a desire to put as much of an emphasis on landing the disc properly as on throwing the disc properly. If you look at the overall design of the course, the one type of shot that seems to have been greatly eliminated or at least greatly discouraged is the plain old hyzer (spike or otherwise). So many fairways require not only a flat/low ceiling shot, but also require the disc to land relatively flat to avoid skipping and sliding. It's why they cut the grass so short on the fairways and longer in the rough, and why they utilize sloped fairways and pin placements so often. They want to reward the art of landing the disc flat as often as possible. That's a big key to holes like 3 or 9 or 11 or 14, at least for RHBH throwers.
Other than the tee shot on hole 5 and maybe hole 6, how many opportunities does the course give for a righty to throw a big sweeping hyzer shot from the tee at all, let alone discourage it with OB or a hazard or some other challenge when it is there. It's not really even there as an option on 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10, 15, 16, 17, or 18, and it's fraught with danger if you attempt it on 6 or 9 or 11 or 14.
The addition of the mando on 5 seems consistent with that philosophy.
The other thing that I think drives a lot of the changes and frankly the design in general over the years is a desire to put as much of an emphasis on landing the disc properly as on throwing the disc properly. If you look at the overall design of the course, the one type of shot that seems to have been greatly eliminated or at least greatly discouraged is the plain old hyzer (spike or otherwise). So many fairways require not only a flat/low ceiling shot, but also require the disc to land relatively flat to avoid skipping and sliding. It's why they cut the grass so short on the fairways and longer in the rough, and why they utilize sloped fairways and pin placements so often. They want to reward the art of landing the disc flat as often as possible. That's a big key to holes like 3 or 9 or 11 or 14, at least for RHBH throwers.
Other than the tee shot on hole 5 and maybe hole 6, how many opportunities does the course give for a righty to throw a big sweeping hyzer shot from the tee at all, let alone discourage it with OB or a hazard or some other challenge when it is there. It's not really even there as an option on 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10, 15, 16, 17, or 18, and it's fraught with danger if you attempt it on 6 or 9 or 11 or 14.
The addition of the mando on 5 seems consistent with that philosophy.
As one of two people who saw that incident unfold, thanks for the laugh. I'll never forget the sound of the "Oh my god!" the guy let out when he realized his car was rolling into the lake.
Also, good advice, all.
filobedo
Double Eagle Member
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The craziest thing I have seen was in 2006 or 2007 on Wednesday or Thursday. I was standing at the #17 tee when a guy took a 23 or some outrageous score. I think this was before the lay up shot was added so he just kept throwing everything ob or in the water. I also got pictures of GG flicking a Sonic into the basket on #7 behind the bamboo wall one year which was cool.
TheOtherBill
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Wasn't one of those he threw into the lake an ultra-rare Japan Open ROC? I think the thrower had a first-hand account in the PDGA mag a few years back as a sidebar to the USDGC preview or wrap-up article.
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That's what I was thinking. To go around the trees, it still takes three big drives to even have a chance for a decent upshot to get par.
For those who aren't going for the green with the 3rd shot, it seems like it might be a tricky distance-control challenge to layup properly. But from there it shouldn't be hard to get across the water in 4 and putt for 5, right?
Right.
But even if we're talking the performance flight players who might be playing for a performance "par" 7 or 8 on the hole, the strategy can still hold. Without the mando there, every player would reach a point, whether it is on their third throw or their seventh throw, where they had to choose which way to go...there is a crossroads of sorts once you reach a certain part of the fairway. If you choose to go around, it's two throws at minimum (1 to the corner, 1 toward the green). And going over the water, ideally, it's a layup to the water's edge and one throw over. Done correctly, it should be the same outcome either way.
The water is a big mental challenge, but it encourages and rewards more skillful shots than the boring around the outside method. Which is what the USDGC is all about. Aggressive but controlled play rules the day on that course...it always has.
It probably is worth keeping in mind that even with the presence of the Performance Flight, the design of the course is still all about challenging the Open players primarily. They want to see guys challenge the lake in going for the green. And now every player in the field is going to have to do just that.
notroman
* Ace Member *
The reason the pros throw the hyzer is because it's easier to range. Taking the hyzer into play doesn't force the player to throw a RHBH anhyzer over water - unless they played their second shot too long. Assuming you land your second shot where you should, the third shot over water is a big hyzer (now illegal) or a straight shot. No reason to anhyzer anything. I've thrown a Roc or Teebird (depending on how close to water I was) many times on that hole instead of throwing the big hyzer over the trees.
From the look of the caddy book, I dont think Im going to be a fan of the new Hazards next to each side of the pin on hole 1. We will have to see how it actually plays but from the caddy book it looks kinda tight and right in the normal landing zones.
TheOtherBill
* Ace Member *
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I've seen some major hyzers over that tree on the corner, I wonder how tall the mando pole will be...
Similar to a FG try that sails one over the vertical uprights, but there won't be a ref standing under it to see which side exactly it passed on. Like most things during a around, however, it would likely end up not getting called if it's anywhere close.
Also, that mando essentially eliminates a huge corner section of that fairway, and the caddy book still shows the 294 distance marker from back there. They might as well add that area to the adjacent parking lot or move the big tent they normally have closer to 6's tee to that spot since no one will end up over there.
Isn't the whole point to put hazards where people could land? What would be the purpose of putting a hazard area somewhere other then where you think people want to land?
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