If they have a choice, yes, a fee might keep the vandals out.
However, P2P is not a cure-all to keep out the vandals and hooligans. I've seen plenty of P2P courses with their fair share of graffiti and equipment damage.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
P2P vs. Free Courses
- Thread starter Blaaaake77
- Start date
If they have a choice, yes, a fee might keep the vandals out.
However, P2P is not a cure-all to keep out the vandals and hooligans. I've seen plenty of P2P courses with their fair share of graffiti and equipment damage.
@blaaaake77
So, what sort of proposal are you working on? Not the full details, but what kind of property, what kind of income expectation, what part of the country, what sort of local disc golf scene?
When you ask about P2P, you're grouping a wide variety of courses into one question. These include:
* Individual private property owners who have built disc golf courses on their land---or, in come cases, bought land with the intent of building a course, among other things.
* Commercial private property, adding disc golf to their property to supplement their main source of income. Golf courses and ski slopes come to mind, though there are others.
* State Parks, and similar county or city parks, adding disc golf to their offerings.
* Local, government-owned parks of a type that might be free is most places, but have elected to charge for disc golf.
* .....and probably some others.
I would assume that, for whatever proposal you're working on, only one of these types of P2P courses has much relevance. Other than the willingness of disc golfers to pay to play them.
So, what sort of proposal are you working on? Not the full details, but what kind of property, what kind of income expectation, what part of the country, what sort of local disc golf scene?
When you ask about P2P, you're grouping a wide variety of courses into one question. These include:
* Individual private property owners who have built disc golf courses on their land---or, in come cases, bought land with the intent of building a course, among other things.
* Commercial private property, adding disc golf to their property to supplement their main source of income. Golf courses and ski slopes come to mind, though there are others.
* State Parks, and similar county or city parks, adding disc golf to their offerings.
* Local, government-owned parks of a type that might be free is most places, but have elected to charge for disc golf.
* .....and probably some others.
I would assume that, for whatever proposal you're working on, only one of these types of P2P courses has much relevance. Other than the willingness of disc golfers to pay to play them.
VictorB
* Ace Member *
I'd never been to a single pay to play course when I lived in Missouri. Up here, both Madison and Dane County Parks are pay to play - 4 of the 5 18+ hole courses in the county (that I'm aware of)
It's just a different culture from what I can tell. Even though the parks close for the winter, they seem to be incredibly well groomed and maintained compared to my old local courses back home. Depending which course you want to play it's either $5-8 per day but they do sell annual passes for $40-48, which are each good for 2 of the parks.
So far I'm liking the system as > $100 is cheap enough that I can just throw it down and not worry about it for a year. I've not experienced a summer season up here so I'll definitely know a lot more by fall about the positives and negatives.
It's just a different culture from what I can tell. Even though the parks close for the winter, they seem to be incredibly well groomed and maintained compared to my old local courses back home. Depending which course you want to play it's either $5-8 per day but they do sell annual passes for $40-48, which are each good for 2 of the parks.
So far I'm liking the system as > $100 is cheap enough that I can just throw it down and not worry about it for a year. I've not experienced a summer season up here so I'll definitely know a lot more by fall about the positives and negatives.
VictorB
* Ace Member *
Sorry for double post bit had something to add and missed the timer:
I think the costs here are well balanced. I don't know that I'd pay more than $10/round even for championship level disc golf, simply because I don't know if there's a precedent to go higher. If it's an amazing course that I won't necessarily play a lot I'd pay a fee for sure, but if I'd frequent it either by myself or with my family I'd definitely like to see a discounted rate offered for day/season passes.
I think the costs here are well balanced. I don't know that I'd pay more than $10/round even for championship level disc golf, simply because I don't know if there's a precedent to go higher. If it's an amazing course that I won't necessarily play a lot I'd pay a fee for sure, but if I'd frequent it either by myself or with my family I'd definitely like to see a discounted rate offered for day/season passes.
zontar
Double Eagle Member
i would be happy to pay $10 to play a course, but I'd like to do multiple rounds in that case...
Even if I'm playing a free course, I'll often times go out of my way to figure out who to pay to support the group that supports the course - ie buying a tag from the local club.
I don't mind paying to play at all. I regularly play 7+ different courses that are p2p. I have a season pass for 3 courses locally. It almost feels weird when there is a super nice free course these but very thankful to have both options. Many of my favorite courses to play are free. I wouldnt hesitate to pay on most of those just not the smaller pitch putt true park style.
There are 3 rules regarding this situation:
1.Nobody wants to pay.
2.Everybody wants something for less.
3.You get what you pay for.
Just like in golf, if growth continues daily fee and private courses will become more common and are actually necessary for the sport to develop. In the earlier days of disc golf, enthusiasts needed to bend over backwards for course funding and installation. In many cases it was a miracle just to have a course within an hours drive. IMO, disc golf is now in a transitional time where in many places the sheer volume of foot-traffic and the disrespect many have for 'free facilities' will force the conversion to daily fees at many public courses, which is the next step for recognition and legitimacy in the wider world.
If you pay greens fees, you may have higher expectations, but you also recognize that things cost money and the chances that the general public will respect things increases. In the case of private courses, charging is a direct method of increasing perceived value and directly supports the improvement of the facilities. While it's not always the case, the more control managers can exert over the facility, the more conditions will improve.
1.Nobody wants to pay.
2.Everybody wants something for less.
3.You get what you pay for.
Just like in golf, if growth continues daily fee and private courses will become more common and are actually necessary for the sport to develop. In the earlier days of disc golf, enthusiasts needed to bend over backwards for course funding and installation. In many cases it was a miracle just to have a course within an hours drive. IMO, disc golf is now in a transitional time where in many places the sheer volume of foot-traffic and the disrespect many have for 'free facilities' will force the conversion to daily fees at many public courses, which is the next step for recognition and legitimacy in the wider world.
If you pay greens fees, you may have higher expectations, but you also recognize that things cost money and the chances that the general public will respect things increases. In the case of private courses, charging is a direct method of increasing perceived value and directly supports the improvement of the facilities. While it's not always the case, the more control managers can exert over the facility, the more conditions will improve.
Probably depends where you live and the number & quality of free courses there is. I live in the DFW area and a p2p course would have to be amazing to compete with the existing free courses available. With that said...I would pay to play several of the DFW courses...if I had to. $5.00 a round, $10.00 all day would work for me.
I live in DFW where we have some 80 free courses in the area, which means most courses are both free and also not overly crowded. Even with that, my favorite course to play is P2P. It only costs $2 to play and you can get a year pass for $20. I probably wouldn't pay much more than $5 for any semi regular play.
I played Selah Ranch last year, we stayed for 5 days and played pretty much every day, but that was a special occasion. I may pay that much to play a course again in 1-2 years from now. There's just too many high quality courses in the area.
I played Selah Ranch last year, we stayed for 5 days and played pretty much every day, but that was a special occasion. I may pay that much to play a course again in 1-2 years from now. There's just too many high quality courses in the area.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
I will gladly pay if it means I can avoid the shirtless bros their unleashed dogs beer cans and crappy music.
glassila
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2013
- Messages
- 1,623
Yep, it's not just "pay to play" a course, it's pay to play without the problems that can be found on a lot of free courses.
I agree with $10 being my top price point without significant added value of some sort. I didn't even consider trying to play Phantom Falls when I was out in Denver a few years ago because I had no interest in paying Paulie's $20 "donation" and even less interest in trying to put together a group to avoid paying the full $80 by myself. Even before reading the fine print though, the $20 figure had put me off. Now, a Selah Ranch that offers golf carts, etc... might be worth the extra money.
The most common pay to play course I play is the Deerfield complex in mid-Michigan. It's $6 per car, per day for 36 holes of good to great disc golf. Compared to the free courses I play in Ohio there is significantly less litter, graffiti and general douchebaggery. When I'm visiting up there there are 3 other free courses closer than Deerfield, but I'm usually willing to drive 45 minutes and pay the $6 park entry fee in order to have a little more peace, quiet, and elbow room.
Long story short: If you offer value, SOME disc golfers will pay. The ones who will pay are usually the folks you want on your course. P2P keeps the trash away.
It all depends. Places like Sandy Point and BRP charge $5 and I am absolutely 100% fine with it.
But I do like to have a variety of free courses; that's what got me into the sport - the low cost to start playing. Even though I have over 20 discs and a $60+ bag, I technically don't have to spend that amount of money to get into the sport, and that was a huge draw for me.
But I do like to have a variety of free courses; that's what got me into the sport - the low cost to start playing. Even though I have over 20 discs and a $60+ bag, I technically don't have to spend that amount of money to get into the sport, and that was a huge draw for me.
It depends. I'll gladly sped the $5 to get into places like BRP and Sandy Point, even the $10 to get into Vision Quest, without a blink or a thought.
However, I love having a variety of free courses to play - that's what got me into dg - the fact that I could pick up a $24 Innova Starter Pack, and just go. The low cost to get started and to play is a huge draw for me, even to this day (even though I have a $60+ bag and over 25 discs).
However, I love having a variety of free courses to play - that's what got me into dg - the fact that I could pick up a $24 Innova Starter Pack, and just go. The low cost to get started and to play is a huge draw for me, even to this day (even though I have a $60+ bag and over 25 discs).
Sorry for the double post, wifi at work is ebola.
Old Dog
Eagle Member
The poll is too narrow with just a yes or no option. I would be willing to pay $5 maybe even $10 to play a particular stand out course or one that offered special amenities such as a club house with a pro shop, pub, etc. occasionally.
But overall I am quite happy playing the free public park courses that are maintained by local DG clubs and organizations. In fact I think I would rather put my $10 toward club dues and volunteer to work at my local course a few times a year.
But overall I am quite happy playing the free public park courses that are maintained by local DG clubs and organizations. In fact I think I would rather put my $10 toward club dues and volunteer to work at my local course a few times a year.
Old Dog
Eagle Member
I live in the Charlotte, NC where there is a plethora of good free courses to play in decent areas. I also tent to play during the week so I don't run into a lot of crowds. I've also been very fortunate in that I don't recall ever running into any real douche bags while playing. In fact just the opposite is true, I've met many nice folks on our free courses. I've seen some littering and vandalism but the majority of that is on the courses in seedier areas. I suspect that the vandalism and litter at the courses in the nicer parks is no worse than what I would expect to see at most ptp courses. Some douche bags have money too and bring their douchery with them wherever they go.
PBokor
Eagle Member
I want it all
I would gladly pay top dollar for a 'real' destination course. It would have to have amenities that aren't available from free courses such as a luxury lodge/restaurant, carts, pro shop, marshals, local caddies who could provide guidance, and maybe a decent teaching pro on staff.
I would basically move in for 2-3 days of DG immersion and I would be prepared to pay resort level rates.
I would gladly pay top dollar for a 'real' destination course. It would have to have amenities that aren't available from free courses such as a luxury lodge/restaurant, carts, pro shop, marshals, local caddies who could provide guidance, and maybe a decent teaching pro on staff.
I would basically move in for 2-3 days of DG immersion and I would be prepared to pay resort level rates.
Similar threads
