New DG Course Proposal

[Awf Hand]

Hey all, first time poster, long time (bad) DG player. Not sure if this is the right forum for this, but I am on a P&R Commission in my city. We have a proposal on the table for new DG course in one of our parks. Currently this is just a wild area park, but it's surrounded by City/residential on all sides. The residential that's there is 350k-700k homes with manicured lawns that back up to this wild area park. The park is ~12 acres.
I'd guess this is going to be a "hot one" from the public input side. I'm the only member of this commission that has ever played DG before and we just had a walkthrough with our local DG club rep. I was on the fence about supporting or not supporting this proposal as there are elements of 'let's just put this rec use in here because it could fit' vs getting along with neighbors. Those folks will NOT want to have people retrieving discs from their yards. They won't want to hear music or yelling. They won't even want to hear chains clanging. -Now, don't get me wrong; they don't own this land and the Park's Commission can just approve and build it, but we want to work with residents as much as possible. Or, if needed, vote down the proposal.
What are your thoughts? Are there ways to abate noise and appease the neighbors? Do you have any successes in your areas? What concerns would you think might come up at a P&R meeting and how could they be addressed?
I'm hoping there are some design elements that can eliminate the trespasses, but you know, I hate to approve a park that results in phone calls for park staff as well...

 

[biscoe]

Can you better define "wild area"? (woods, overgrown fields, etc)

Is there anything else slotted to go in the park?

12 acres is not a lot of land once you need a sizable buffer zone around the outside. You are very likely correct that the neighbors are going to be opposed. Complaints (whether founded or not) will be noise, eyesore, ecological havoc.

 

[Shallows]

Complaints (whether founded or not) will be noise, eyesore, ecological havoc.

Undesirable clientele...

 

[elmexdela]

how much foot traffic is this course likely to get

 

[biscoe]

Undesirable clientele...

Generally they don't come out and say that, just complain about the sounds and the sights (and smells if you are particularly unlucky).

 

[Steve West]

Look at that location as the first attempt at finding the right place. Most courses I've designed have ended up somewhere other than the first (or second) place I was asked to put it.

 

[Chucker60]

Any chance the course can be cut down to just 9 holes, with the majority of the layout on the interior/middle part of the 12 acres? (In an effort to keep the course away from the residential homes that border the property & to avoid all the potential problems you mention).
I know an 18 hole course is likely more desirable, but a 9 hole course (if done well) is better than no course.....right?

 

[DFrah]

Any chance the course can be cut down to just 9 holes, with the majority of the layout on the interior/middle part of the 12 acres? (In an effort to keep the course away from the residential homes that border the property & to avoid all the potential problems you mention).
I know an 18 hole course is likely more desirable, but a 9 hole course (if done well) is better than no course.....right?

I was just going to say this same thing. It sounds like a 9 hole course may be a better bet. Curious on what the "wild area" terrain is as well like Biscoe said.

I have played plenty of courses where the designers clearly tried to "get to 18" holes and the result is that everything is jammed in, too short, and unsafe.

Maybe there is room for a really solid 9 hole course in that same space. Definitely worth considering, in my opinion!

 

[TheOtherBill]

I've heard 'an acre a hole' for a top-shelf course, but that applies to 9 holers as well. Giving each hole more room might also allow 2nd pin locations and/or long tee pads.

 

[roblee]

You've asked important questions. No way to give useful input without terrain/vegetation/current use knowledge. Are there trails? Birdwatchers? Picnic areas? A Google Earth view is helpful. No doubt you're gonna take heat from the club for putting it out here.

 

[ru4por]

Taxpayers.....especially those paying taxes on houses that are pricey, are going to garner attention when they start complaining. And they WILL complain. NIMBY's are the greatest natural predator of disc golf courses. I have attended several meetings and they actually say things like..."we don't want a bunch of people coming here to use the park"...."We are not interested in sharing our park with anyone"...

It sounds like a 9 hole course would be the best option. Engaging local clubs to help design, run, maintain, run leagues and clinics would be a start on community outreach. Hopefully will also start to dispel the inevitable cry of the NIMBY...."they ain't nothing but a bunch of drunk, pot smoking hippies".

 

[biscoe]

I am working on a course currently with a person high up on the political totem pole in the county involved. One thing he said the other day may be applicable here- when it is time to do the public meetings, etc be sure to take kids with you. It is hard to say no to kids.

 

[Awf Hand]

So I can expand on this a bit:

The 12 acres is forested with low understory for 70-80% of it. Minimal to no understory for the rest. Hardwood mix, oak dominant. There is a large rise along one side of the parcel with residential at the top. The 12 acres is oddly shaped with a narrows in the middle. There would be about 5.5 and 6.5 split by this narrows. It's 80-90 feet wide.
There are fiscal reasons that tie us to this site. It's in a particular district that has some funding allocated specifically to P&R and that funding must be spent in the district. If we went with 9 holes, they would be quite long holes. The local club rep seemed to think 18 holes, but as a commission we need to temper/balance the enthusiasm between a group that wants to play DG and a group that feels they have a "private park" that is public property.
I did attach an image of the area. The large rise is along the southern (north is to the top) area and the parcel includes all that portion of the property that reaches the parking lot to the west and wraps around the water tower to the SE.
Thoughts on this? I need to enter our committee discussions open-minded and I'm just wanting to be informed. I know there are quieter inserts that can be used on the center post to dampen the noise and I know we can have a 'no amplified music' rule as well.
What else might we need to do so this isn't set up for failure?
Or is it already?

-addition: At Biscoe; There is currently nothing else slated for this park. We may be looking at a smaller pavilion and water supply for nearby trail users, but that's way down the line and well outside the site of where neighbors would care about it.
Currently the land is just undeveloped woods. A handful of neighbors use it to dump yard waste.

 

[Awf Hand]

You've asked important questions. No way to give useful input without terrain/vegetation/current use knowledge. Are there trails? Birdwatchers? Picnic areas? A Google Earth view is helpful. No doubt you're gonna take heat from the club for putting it out here.

Then I guess I take heat. As a commission our job is to collect whatever info is necessary to make a decision for our community. This is where I've chosen to collect info. No doubt some of our local DG club members are on here. I respect what they do and just ask that they return the favor.

There is very little use of this land currently. I did share a view of the parcel.

 

[biscoe]

With 12 acres to begin with, a 90 foot wide pinch point in the middle, and potential for NIMBY issues I would enter this process with the idea that 9 or 12 holes is what I could get out of it and treat anything more as a happy surprise should it occur. When you walk fresh woods with an inexperienced eye you will tend to vastly overestimate the distances involved. The first time I worked on a wooded course (well before we carried GPS around in our pockets) we had all these holes we thought were potentially 400 feet long and possibly too difficult but when we got them measured it turned out they were all right around 200. The fact that it is wooded helps a lot both in terms of needing less space for holes and keeping noise, etc. away from the neighbors though.

 

[txmxer]

Nothing wrong with a well designed short course (holes less than 300') on wooded land.

 

[TheOtherBill]

That parcel will be tough to design in, esp if the center house by the narrow part takes issue with the course. At 80-90 feet wide you can only put one hole through there and then it would require walking back through the area to get to your car.

Even a neighborhood pitch and putt course could have trouble there.

 

[ru4por]

Nothing wrong with a well designed short course (holes less than 300') on wooded land.

Especially true if disc golf is new to the area. Course development and installation should be seen from a community level. The disc golf community should be served as a totality. Family friendly, beginner friendly courses are vital to the growth of the game, in any area. A well used, family recreation opportunity, will only serve as a stepping stone to future projects.

 

[DavidSauls]

Yeah, I'm thinking a family-friendly/beginner's course (i.e., 150' holes), just in the wide part of the parcel and well away from the houses, is the best use of that property.

 

[jakebake91]

Yeah, I'm thinking a family-friendly/beginner's course (i.e., 150' holes), just in the wide part of the parcel and well away from the houses, is the best use of that property.

That's the same conclusion I drew as well. There's not really a way to use that skinny chunk in a safe manner. Do the best you can with that larger piece. Stays away from the residential parts, too.