Paul McBeth #27523

[ballgolfconvert]

You have no corner, you are making up a take on Paul's post, you are a simple contrarian, for the sake of sating your need for attention.

The rule is simple and enforceable.

The rule is extremely misguided and does not achieve what it is trying to achieve. You have dozens of players taking the same amount of time and not getting called for penalties on it at every event. You have cards out of position where the issue never even gets raised. And you have players who can use it to throw other players off their game. If violations of this rule were actually enforced evenly, you would have dozens of Nikko type outburst on the tour over it. To fix it you have to put a limit to how long the warning is to last. I think the PGA Tour's two hole limit is reasonable. I also think that if a player puts another player on the clock they should be required to time them every throw or else the warning gets lifted. None of this warn them on #2 or so and then call a penalty on #17 even though that was the first time they timed the player again. It is just too easy for players to mess with other players under this rule so it needs refinement to make it fair. All in my honest opinion.

 

[ejvogie]

What financial success has Paul reaped that Ricky hasn't?

To be fair, Rick lost a lot of his financial success when Bitcoin took a dump.

 

[acrosley]

(Nikko also nearly got in a fight with one of our locals who was another blowhard but that's a different story.)

I'll bite, care to share?

 

[davetherocketguy]

The rule is extremely misguided and does not achieve what it is trying to achieve. You have dozens of players taking the same amount of time and not getting called for penalties on it at every event. You have cards out of position where the issue never even gets raised. And you have players who can use it to throw other players off their game. If violations of this rule were actually enforced evenly, you would have dozens of Nikko type outburst on the tour over it.

[yoda]Strong the speculation with this one is[/yoda]

 

[hanger129]

What financial success has Paul reaped that Ricky hasn't?

Obviously this is pure speculation, but I have a hard time thinking the royalties Ricky has collected from discs sales are anywhere near what Paul has received with Discraft. So that's one. You also see more people wearing Paul McBeth merch as opposed to Ricky. Can't say I've ever seen someone wear a Ricky hat/shirt/what-have-you. Paul's also had multiple signature bags with Grip.

My larger point is that Paul's success has had a lot to do with him branding himself. Not just "being dominant at a time that disc golf was booming" (paraphrasing the original comment).

 

[Hampstead]

Wasn't he one of the first to talk to an agent?

 

[Countchunkula]

My larger point is that Paul's success has had a lot to do with him branding himself. Not just "being dominant at a time that disc golf was booming" (paraphrasing the original comment).

I'll admit that I might have overplayed my hand a bit with that line.

My point was more about the disc golf boom being the driving force for money coming into the sport (and making its way to the top players) though. IMO, that drove Paul's big paydays more than anything he did outside of winning majors (and all that did was ensure he would be one of the top earners among pros).

Part of that is the existence of social media and the internet as we know it today. Awareness of/access to dg is at an all time high. I didn't even know disc golf existed until the early 2000s. Now the number of courses has boomed and there are thousands of high quality videos a click away. I usually hate this analogy, but I'm taking it back. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Climo simply didn't have the same opportunities to monetize his dominance in the 90s.

 

[Muddyboots]

Paul's success, speaking only in financial terms, is a result of him positioning himself, consistently, in situations that are good for him. He seems to be happy to front those efforts under the auspice of being good for others, but in the end, they're good for him. Sanctimonious, writ large. Knowing this, I have trouble seeing why he would take Nikkos side, and damage his hard crafted image/brand/whathaveyou. I'd love to see an anonymous poll of touring pros questioning whether they thought the punishment was commensurate with the infractions. I suspect there might be a grudging admission that while it happening in Europe (one off event isn't the right term, but similar), he had more than earned it. I suspect a minority would disagree (Paul's camp), most would agree, broadly, and a few would be celebratory.

 

[Rastnav]

I'll admit that I might have overplayed my hand a bit with that line.

My point was more about the disc golf boom being the driving force for money coming into the sport (and making its way to the top players) though. IMO, that drove Paul's big paydays more than anything he did outside of winning majors (and all that did was ensure he would be one of the top earners among pros).

Part of that is the existence of social media and the internet as we know it today. Awareness of/access to dg is at an all time high. I didn't even know disc golf existed until the early 2000s. Now the number of courses has boomed and there are thousands of high quality videos a click away. I usually hate this analogy, but I'm taking it back. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Climo simply didn't have the same opportunities to monetize his dominance in the 90s.

Sure, the Covid boom has to have something to do with the contract Paul signed. But, IDK, Paul is the only guy on tour at the time who looked like he pressed his pants and shirt, and cleaned his shoes before he came to the course. And he was doing that well before that big contract, AFAIK. 2017 and 2018 Paul looks the same way.

That commercial showing Paul running that was all over the place last year? Paul looks like he views broader physical conditioning as a means of gaining advantage. Paul knows the rules better than most of the TDs and rules officials. For better or worse, everyone else on the MPO is a little scruffier, kinda eccentric, etc.

Paul just presents like someone who really takes his profession, well, professionally.

 

[zenbot]

801.02.B would be the rule to warn them under- "Players are expected to call a violation when one has clearly occurred". I have never heard of this occurring in any event at any level however.

Yeah. How would you call that when calling 30 seconds has apparently divided disc golf?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Although Paul didn't mention it in his IG posts about Nikko's suspension, Charlie Eisenhood mentioned that at the time the PDGA handed out Bradley Williams' suspension, the PDGA wasn't at all transparent about their process, and determining the length of the suspension.

Given the current situation, it doesn't appear much has changed in that regard. I think it's the PDGA'S lack of transparency that really got under McBeth's skin.

While I don't agree with Paul's description of the interaction between Nikko and the official, I do agree the PDGA needs to be completely transparent about how they arrived at Class A, 9 month suspension/24 month probation.

There's no reason there shouldn't put it out there for all to see.

Go to about the 8:30 mark for that part.

 

[txmxer]

My understanding is that Williams issues were basically word of mouth and written complaint, plus history.

I can see how Paul would say the process lacked transparency because the evidence was not shared publicly. Pretty much just rumor and the punishment.

Not sure how Nikko's issue is comparable. You can watch the video as many times as you want.

 

[Monkeypaws]

My take - I've watched baseball managers give umpires 10x what Locastro did.

Understood the volunteer vs. professional piece, but the manager gets ejected and is back in the dugout the next night.

Nine months?! He didn't lay a finger on the guy, spit on him, even cuss him out. Nothing.

PDGA are babies if they think that minor tantrum merits such action. They understand some folks get hot when in competition no?

 

[txmxer]

They understand some folks get hot when in competition no?

So? Who's problem is that? Maybe he should go play baseball if he can't control his temper?

 

[Hampstead]

My take - I've watched baseball managers give umpires 10x what Locastro did.

Understood the volunteer vs. professional piece, but the manager gets ejected and is back in the dugout the next night.

Nine months?! He didn't lay a finger on the guy, spit on him, even cuss him out. Nothing.

PDGA are babies if they think that minor tantrum merits such action. They understand some folks get hot when in competition no?

Over the history of all MLB games, how many times have managers acted in an aggressive, argumentative or antagonistic manner towards professional umpires? Thousands of times is probably accurate.

Over the history of PDGA events, how many times have competitors acted that way towards volunteer officials?

 

[txmxer]

Over the history of all MLB games, how many times have managers acted in an aggressive, argumentative or antagonistic manner towards professional umpires? Thousands of times is probably accurate.

Over the history of PDGA events, how many times have competitors acted that way towards volunteer officials?

What? A well compensated Ump that understands the theater of the sport is different than a volunteer official donating his personal time to try and facilitate the event are different situations???

I cannot fathom the world you live in.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

My understanding is that Williams issues were basically word of mouth and written complaint, plus history.

I can see how Paul would say the process lacked transparency because the evidence was not shared publicly. Pretty much just rumor and the punishment.

Not sure how Nikko's issue is comparable. You can watch the video as many times as you want.

As you say, the video is there for all to see and hear.

I meant the PDGA isn't transparent as to how they determined Class A vs. class C, or how they arrived at 9 months. I'm not complaining about my 9 months, but more the transparency of the committee's decision making process.

https://www.pdga.com/documents/disciplinary-process

 

[VictorB]

While I don't agree with Paul's description of the interaction between Nikko and the official, I do agree the PDGA needs to be completely transparent about how they arrived at Class A, 9 month suspension/24 month probation.

While I think this is appropriate in this case, where does the line get drawn then for other PDGA members? Are all suspensions then explained/announced by the disciplinary committee? This is another case where how the tour pros would be handled should likely be different than 'non-tour' players. I don't think the PDGA is in a position to make that discretionary differentiation.

 

[Brychanus]

I'm not complaining about my 9 months, but more the transparency of the committee's decision making process.

...Nikko?

 

[ru4por]

My take - I've watched baseball managers give umpires 10x what Locastro did.

Understood the volunteer vs. professional piece, but the manager gets ejected and is back in the dugout the next night.

Nine months?! He didn't lay a finger on the guy, spit on him, even cuss him out. Nothing.

PDGA are babies if they think that minor tantrum merits such action. They understand some folks get hot when in competition no?

I was kind of waiting for someone to say this. Baseball is the anomaly. Few other sports allow the stageshow, of ump confrontation that baseball does. I mean, hockey allows fighting, that certainly does not translate to fighting being OK in other sports.

If anyone confronts me the way Nikko did, I am interpreting it as a threat. It is a fist fight posture...I don't know how that is interpreted any differently. Then to do it repeatedly?

Perhaps this kind of theatrics, is where some feel the game should head? But, I think if those people really thought that through......